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IMPORTANT: A Call To All Citizens, Apprentices, Scribes, Journeymen, and Admins:

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IMPORTANT: A Call To All Citizens, Apprentices, Scribes, Journeymen, and Admins:

from WinCustomize Forums
THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC ON OUR HANDS!

Now before you go on thinking what I know you all are thinking, this isn't a rant about ratings or rejections. I'm calling all of you to go on a mission. I've noticed that there are a tremendous amount of skins that are accepted to this site that receive only 1 rating, which is the rating of the Admin, usually the default 6. THIS IS INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING! Even to me! Now most of my skins have been rated multiple times, so this isn't about me,

THIS IS ABOUT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY

WinCustomize is a thriving community, and as the most recent poll points out, this community is becoming more and more popular every day. This means there are new members, downloads, and skinners every single day. With this comes great responsibility on our parts. When a new member decides to upload something, he wants feedback, even if it's not as favorable as he/she had hoped. When they see the default rating appear upon it's uploading, and when they see that rating remain unchanged, there is a feeling of isolation... especially when the more well known users in this community end up with 15 or so ratings.

THE NEW WILL CARRY THE MESSAGE OF THE OLD

How can we survive if we do not show a sign of hospitality to the new members? We need to show as much consideration as possible. More ratings, both good and bad, are BETTER than fewer ratings, because it shows not only that we care about the new members' efforts, but also that there is much room and appreciation for improvement.

DON'T WORRY, CITIZENS, YOU CAN DO YOUR PART TOO!

Nothing says thank you like leaving a comment. I've noticed that there is a horribly large number of new submissions that go seemingly unnoticed, despite what may be a good number of downloads. If you like what you see, SHOW YOUR APPRECIATION! If you don't, tell them how they can improve! Because when members, both new and old, upload something that receives no comments, they either feel neglected, or they feel like everything is ok (when, and I shutter to think, things, i.e. the work, may not be).

With over 1,000,000 members and tens of thousands of skins available, the future looks bright for WC. But don't let things just roll along. You can feed this fire everyday...

SO I CALL OUT TO ALL CITIZENS, APPRENTICES, JOURNEYMEN, SCRIBES, AND ADMINS:

DO YOUR PART! RATE, COMMENT, AND SHOW YOUR SUPPORT! SHOW WHY THIS IS THE BEST COMMUNITY ON THE INTERNET...PERIOD.
21,057 views 82 replies
Reply #26 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well I'm not sure about the rest of you, but for every new submission that is displayed in the Newest Additions window, I will rate and comment.

That's a promise. I hope other will join in this, because we really need to do a better job of welcoming new submissions with open arms.
Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top
macrobye : Will You use every submission, too ? Because without that no real rating is possible. Speaking for me personally I have no time for that, because I have a real life also...
[Message Edited]
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #28 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins.

The skins are tested by Admins in the beginning... that is how they even pass moderation in the first place.
Reply #29 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Im not getting the feeling that the rally cry is working. I have 2 skins on the newest additons list. 4 comments related to the skins, 1 rating on 1 skin and 3 on the other. Going through the skins and rating and commenting is work sometimes but Its also a responsibilty. Hopefully this is staying on topic but Is it ok to rate skins without downloading them? I don't think it's a true reading on the skin. Especially with boot skins because alot are showing a nice screenshot that isn't the real 16 color image. I tend not to rate unless I have tried something out but It is alot of time sorting through everything trying it all out. I don't know. I guess I am looking to be told what to do. Evryone that reads this post is hereby ordered to go and rate one of my skins.
Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top

#27 by c242 - 3/26/2004 2:15:24 PM
macrobye : Will You use every submission, too ? Because without that no real rating is possible. Speaking for me personally I have no time for that, because I have a real life also...
[Message Edited]




#28 by Sir macrobaye - 3/26/2004 2:44:23 PM
Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins.

The skins are tested by Admins in the beginning... that is how they even pass moderation in the first place.

Rating a skin based on the screenshot is worse than not rating IMHO

Reply #31 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Exactly what I meant ! Therefore this thread is rather useless besides for walls and screenshots.



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Reply #32 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Not really a waste if done properly. I just dowloaded and used one of NightTrain002's skins. And I used paxx's guide to rate it. Not everbody starts off skinning like treetog or hippy or mikeb314. Some constructive criticism from the masters would be welcomed instead of the silence we now endure. How are new skinners to better their abilities without the help of those that came before them? Maybe there wouldn't be as much Junk as it is called, in the libraries if some people stepped up and commented


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[Message Edited]
Reply #33 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I still think many people can't wait long enough before submitting their first skin. Most people are not able to self-moderate their submissions anymore. How many things are on my HD never uploaded or even shown, what do You think ?
[Message Edited]
Reply #34 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I rate what I try, can't get fairer than that
Reply #35 from WinCustomize Forums Top
thanks for the kind comments macrobaye...
Reply #36 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Therefore this thread is rather useless besides for walls and screenshots.


Not at all. Obviosuly walls and screenshots are just viewable and nothing more, but other "viewable" categories are ObjectDock, Graphics, many DX Objects, etc.

Everyone has their own system of rating, so mine may be a little different. But honestly, if a skin has problems such as the scrollbars aren't aligned, or other techinal problems, the author always has time to fix them... so rating a skin based on that is kind of redundant. That goes for WB mostly, because it's the look that counts not functionality (because they all have *mostly* the same features).

Other skins might not be that easy to rate based on looks alone, but with Icons, Walls, WB skins, and skins that you cant really experiment with, it's really fine to rate without downloadint them first.
Reply #37 from WinCustomize Forums Top
As mentioned, walls and screenshots are the only 2 sections of the library that can be rated 'on the fly' since they don’t need to be run by a program to test how they work.
The rest of the skins MUST be downloaded, installed and tested before any type of comment or rating can be awarded.
I read a lot of 'This sucks' or 'This is crap' by people that I can bet my life have not downloaded (or even have the program to run the skin) but yet they feel that they have the expertise to make such comment and rate just by looking at a screenshot.
And just to add, I believe the purpose of the thread is to motivate people to be more supportive by adding comments and ratings to the skins they download. I've seen skins that have 50.000+ download and only 20 comments and 12 ratings.
So if you have the privilege of commenting and rating, and you have downloaded and tried a skin, just extend your gratitude to the artist with a comment and a rating.

It won’t kill you.


Reply #38 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Of course not. That would be impossible. But I can still rate skins based on appeal, time taken to do the work, and how it appeals to my tastes, all without using the skins.


I generally don't rate a lot of new work, but I also don't download a lot of the new stuff. I have my favorite authors, who have been around for a bazillion years and already get umpteen jillion comments. I will make an effort to rate more of the WB skins from newer authors (since I really don't use much of the other parts of ODNT), but only after downloading. What's the point of a rating of a WB skin if you didn't at least run it through it's paces? Best thing for a new skinner is to know what's a little goofed up that can be easily fixed and by downloading it and letting them know, most will be appreciative of being able to fix something in their skin that they didn't realized could be done.

As for time taken to do a skin. I could produce a skin with a level of "graphical appeal" that would take me three or four weeks to do, while a treetog could do the same level of graphics, probably in a day. So you really can't judge a skin on time taken to do the work unless you know the author very well and know his/her capabilities.

That's just my two cents
Reply #39 from WinCustomize Forums Top
macrobaye, most authors make icons to go with their entire suite, so just looking at a few icons thats in the preview would not be fair. Logons,walls and screenshots I would agree with.

Personally, if I wanted a wall that had all that MS crap on it, I would just leave what came with the machine. Also, if I wanted a wall with all that writing on it, I just read a book instead.



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Reply #40 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I usually only (until now) rate walls, OD icons, bootskins, and some sysmetrix stuff... most of which can be rated and commented on without downloading.

HOWEVER, I do agree that before leaving comments, one should download a skin. Ratings, on the other hand, can always be chanmged if a grave mistake was made that had been discovered upon download.

Now, let's get back on topic and see about making this a sticky thread. What I said in the opening post is the real stuff to follow. So please, Admins, can we make this a sticky thread?
Reply #41 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I don't think this should be a sticky thread. It isn't vitally important and mostly affects those who can rate. Most of the people that can rate have an understanding about ratings, and those thay don't understand can always ask. Additionally if those that can rate already do or don't give a flying rats ass. While good in intent I don't think this thread will make non-voters convert.

Lastly I dislike sticky threads and wish that there were less than there are now.
Reply #42 from WinCustomize Forums Top
#41 by Sir kongit - 3/26/2004 8:46:05 PM I don't think this should be a sticky thread. It isn't vitally important and mostly affects those who can rate. Most of the people that can rate have an understanding about ratings, and those thay don't understand can always ask. Additionally if those that can rate already do or don't give a flying rats ass. While good in intent I don't think this thread will make non-voters convert. Lastly I dislike sticky threads and wish that there were less than there are now.


This is perhaps the most important thing to insure the future of WC!!!!!!!

If we do not encourage new users, by rating skins, but most importantly (and unmentioned in your post, by the way) BY POSTING COMMENTS, WC will be a festering heap of banality, run by old farts and washed up skinners (ha ha, take it lightly)!!!

The futire lies in the hands of new members. Most skinners, when they start, are probably not very good.. it takes help from other members to boost their knowledge and determination to improve! This is perhaps the most important thread I've seen in a while, and certainly the only one desev-ed of being sticky (the other's were, once, but have been there for a LONG time!)...it's time for some rotation.

So please, if you're not gonna make this s sticky thread, then KEEP IT ALIVE! If you don't, I will!
Reply #43 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Well, I wasn't going to stick it, simply because stickies seem to get overlooked, but hey........... there you go! 
Reply #44 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think it is great that you are trying to make this site better, and I am all for getting people to post more and better comments and for more and responsible rating, however I question the usefulness of this thread being sticky. I think that stickies should be for ease of use and not informative purposes. Stickies should be made for threads that people either want to read or want to post in without the person having to go looking it for it. The desktops thread is a good thread. The only type of informative thread I can think of is one that is specifically about the board that it is in, addressing problems or rules for that specific board.
Reply #45 from WinCustomize Forums Top
I think that stickies should be for ease of use and not informative purposes.


What about the IMPORTANT: Wallpaper rejection thread? should that be sticky??
Reply #46 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Ok everyone here it goes. I am not a skinner, but I enjoy and I am fascinated with this type of art. Yes I said art. I love this site and have been coming here for close to a yr., which by the way is about how long I've had my 'puter. I'm digressing.
I look at many different pieces of work here and comment/rate on occasion. Not being a skinner though does tend to make you hesitate sometimes on commenting, not that I don't believe I can't see quality,or artistry, but because I don't know how you do this.
That said, having been a musician and photographer over the last 30 odd yrs. and being around friends that are talented in different forms of art I feel I have a little something I can give.
I will make a concerted effort to either rate,comment or both more frequently.
I do agree with jortheblow, I don't like to rate or comment on something I don't d/l. although I do occasionally.
Ok, I'm done. Ifeel better now. Thanks for this thread macrobaye.




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Reply #47 from WinCustomize Forums Top
i will also try to rate new files that pass through and we may all have our own style of rating, but that just makes this site even better.
when you think about it, we are all different and because of that, we are likely to all give different ratings for different reasons and that can only improve the site.
Rating a skin based on the screenshot is worse than not rating

rating a file should not always be based on the way it looks. if you're talking about wallpapers, then yes, it should matter. but when you are talking about more complex things such as LiteStep, for example. things that can be customized. those things should be looked at more closely. to have a truely "good" rating, you need to experience the file in the fullest. 'how does this wallpaper show up on my desktop. i cant see my icons' 'how well does this shell work. does it have many glitches'
many of you seem to forget that there are 2, TWO, parts to rating a file. there is the rating itself, and the comments. i see a fair amount of ratings, but there are not so many comments is seems as ratings. and what i meant was meaningful comments. anybody can post a comment and say "this sucks" or "this totally rocks make another", but what is missing is the vital information that explains to the creator what you think is missing. how can anybody create something good if you dont tell them what you like? if you were all to do what macrobaye has called you to do, you would also read the comments as you rate files. and in doing this, you would see what other people like and so you would all know what there is a demand for. it's almost a 'self poll'
it would seem that as this community grows, we rate files more on how they look and less on how they 'work' and it may work for us, but it gives a false impression and the more we do it, the less it means and that's one of the reasons we have this 'rally cry'
sry for the lengthy post, im a bit bored but i feel it is almost necessary
Reply #48 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Thanks for the sticky!
like Marcobae, I planned to keep it alive too. think it's something worth considering.
even if people don't begin to comment and rate every single skin, it will at least jog enough people to action that we should see a considerable rise in helpful information and begin to see a more unified ratings practice.
you and I both know there will always be someone around who rates based on popularity of skinner, or comments specifically to dampen the mood of others, but now there will be more of a balance between those and people who take the time and effort to be constructive and supportive.
Reply #49 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The only comments I get are from an exiled guy


Ok I also had 3 compliments but I should have more constructive comments considering i have 1500 downloads overal
Reply #50 from WinCustomize Forums Top
The only comments I get are from an exiled guy


(They are rather rude)