1.5 newest beta planetary economy

At first you tried to force asteroid use for mining. Because it was the only income in SoaSE 1 and 'you' seemed to believe that soase 1 economy was better. No mining on planet, just asteroids.

At first there were no population mechanics, then in this beta you cut out most planet mining income to complete 0, then proceeded to nerf mining incomes from pop even more. Very much fun and very immersive. Not. Frustrating to play with.

This sort of economy tries to rape player into forcing them into mining asteroids. Planet mining research is very expensive and gives next to zero return in comparison. An epic fail so far.

If this is the way you want to address late game hoarding, then you better make upkeep based on fleet use, or add to that each starbase, each ship, so, that you get say 0,1% of ship cost (1/1000) per second, be added to upkeep.

Say Cobalt, 300 / 55 would cost 0,3 gold, 0,055 iron. The bigger the fleet, you could add all space installations, the higher the upkeep per hull.

If there are people who say that Soase 1 upkeep was 'good' then, those people need have this heads checked whether there is a vacuum. I am convinced there are many loud people who understand nothing and believe themselves confident in their expertise.

The bigger the active fleet and installations, the higher the costs.

Nerfing planetary income and population income is simply trying to push economy outside the planets while upgrading the planets is hugely expensive. Mining from planets will yield more than from some asteroids. Not so ? Why ? What is the point ???

First iteration having 19 population x 25 per pop, later nerfing it some more is trying to fix a problem that is not there to 15 pop per logistics slot. (previously those pop buildings in space were redundant and arent really needed) While 100 pop yields next to nothing, always inferior to the asteroid. This direction tries to make me not play the game because it tries to impose so much difficulty to the economy, while hugely disproportionately giving nearly all mining income to asteroids. Because SOaSE 1 system was so advanced and superior (LOL)

Planetary income was fine, unless youre playing on 50+ planets a 1v1.

0 planetary income and nearly useless pop income makes the beta not fun at all, because income is near-zero apart from asteroids.

You still need to put those research labs somewhere.

By how the beta is going, mining from planets will be removed because it adds useless costs and just have there some tax just like it was in soase 1R.

Is economy shielded by planet an issue from PvP environment ? Because these changes seem to be coming from that nearly-nonexistent playerbase at the cost of the majority who are not crying about non-issues.

Upkeep that ignores active fleets are what bloats late-game economy. This is what you need to look into, not planetary incomes.

It is like armies cost nothing once you buy vehicles and equip soldiers. There are huge costs tied to running active military expenses even without ordering and making new units of military equipment.

If Endgame was that you had millions of resources hanging somewhere, it is because there are no costs from active installations, ships, turrets, starbases etc. All these units in use costing nothing is what causes the hoards that never run out.

Trying to revert economy to SoaSE:R and if there are 'wise minds' who believe that having 75% of your income cut just because you have unused 2000 supply is so much disconnected from reality that it is almost funny. Say, having a parking lot, with a capacity of 2000 cars, costs you 75% of your economy ? Or 2000 cars that are running and are using up all sorts of materiel, maintenance, oils, spare parts, fuel etc.

This is the difference. If 2k active supply would take 75% of income, (instead of fixed negative incomes based on ships costs)

Youre not having the same expenses when the 2K parking lot was not used. Youre having no expenses running all the cars that you do not have. Game doesnt tell you that you have bankers stealing 75% of your income regardless, whether you have a 2K supply of active ships or not.

Your incomes will decide how big a force you might have. Or you might hoard, use up your fleet, lose it before you run out of resources because it went too big for your economy to handle.

This is how hoarding will only happen when you have only incomes with no fleet or too many items like 30 labs etc.

So far the beta economy from my view is complete and utter trash that tries to fix things upside down from a lack of understanding.

Fixing things that arent broken. Making big fleets and sustaining them is what should add to costs. Not Soase 1 system.

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Reply #1 Top

So, while I do not feel like the economy is heading in the best direction - since the late game resource bloat is not addressed only made slower, I do really think that you ought to experiment with fleet size or everything in space/on planets too, to have upkeep of sorts.

Logistics supply upgrades should probably work to make the upkeep less expensive. 1/1000 of cost per second in upkeep is pretty expensive, as in 16,67 minutes youre paying the ship cost in just having it.

Cap ship 2500 850 600

upkeep with 1/1000 per second would turn into 2,5 gold, 0,85 metal, 0,6 crystal per second.

I do not say that this exact formula works best, there are ships that cost crystal, some dont. Some ships cost exotics, cap ship items could also cost upkeep since they are additional costs. Cost of ship items, plus their exotic cost could also be added to get total costs to increase upkeep costs as well. Or you only upkeep the ship cost without accounting for exotics. 

This sort of upkeep would most likely need a redesign for ship costs, like have it built from sort of ground-up, where ship components have costs like that in the shtella game. That is like the only thing in that game they did well.

And when it comes to new advent beams, they do look realistic and cool, so I do hope that other beams get the same treatment.

Without ships and systems being modular, the upkeep system will very likely be something that adds values arbitrarily.

However, even so, it has to be the fleet that adds costs so that active fleet is expensive

critical mass research still not fixed, tec drops culture at 200% per jump.

There was also a feature, where a docked fleet would cost only a fraction of upkep when stationed in a 'shipyard'. When moved out of place or in combat, costs would be full, not reduced.

Reply #2 Top

Hey, thanks for the detailed thoughts on economy. Economy is a difficult topic, as there are many players with various visions of it, but I will make sure to communicate your thoughts to the team!

Reply #3 Top

The update is actually quite immersive from a realistic standpoint! You can think of mining made more expensive on planets because of hazardous planetary conditions and geological reasons. You have to invest more to dig the planets crust / mantle and build infrastructures on lava / ice / radiation / ocean. While on asteroids the outcrops are basically untouched and easilly accessible. Also income requires population which is more realistic than having just a base income.

From a gameplay perspective it is also quite an excellent concept! The idea is to have players use logistical slots to decide whether to develop research (labs), economy (population structures), unity/trade/resonance (special structures), military (ship factories), exotics (refineries) and that is quite challenging and makes you have skill to PLAY the game. That's why planets have more logistical slots and research Tiers require less logistical slots in this update (diplomatic repercussions).

Having said that, while I really like the concept behind this future update, TomaSkTemplar does make a very fair point that at the moment massive fleets have absolutely no repercussion on player economy. The fact that there is no upkeep is quite unimmersive and poses no challenge from a gameplay perspective. Players should be cautious about building fleets larger than their empire can sustain and this would make gameplay very very challenging and interesting. Do I build/destroy ships or invest in more economy? Having a negative upkeep could even have very cool repercussions like ships rebelling to pirate faction! This would also make way for very interesting gameplay strategies like triggering rebellions from crippling a players economy without having to fight an undefeatable massive fleet!

It would be very interesting to have ship upkeep introduced in a future patch!

Thank you, loving the game!!!

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