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Tariff and World Trade talk

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Tariff and World Trade talk

from Stardock Forums

We don't generally allow politics on the forums.  With the obvious exception of The Political Machine. The Political Machine - The Power of the Presidency Can Be Yours! Forums

But the world trade situation is probably something worth discussing provided people can avoid assuming "the other" are stupid or evil or greedy or whatever.  

Now, I'm a child of Michigan USA.  Detroit area.  That means cars.  And I can say, regardless of political association, the topic of unfair trade has been discussed endlessly here.

I won't get into the issues with the UAW and Unions and whatnot.  But I will say that the global trade situation is more nuanced than most know.

To side-step the USA vs. China stuff, I want to instead talk about UK.

Last UK blast furnaces days from closure as Chinese owners cut off crucial supplies | Money News | Sky News

The United Kingdom is about to close its last steel plant.  I.e. for the first time since the Bronze Age, the land of England will stop being able to make metal.  That's a bit hyperbolic but the point is the same.  Losing the ability to make certain basic civilizational goods is a problem.

If we lived in a world that would never have any supply disruptions and could avoid having any wars, then it would be perfectly fine for the US, UK, the EU, etc. to just switch to a pure information economy of services and leave the production of physical goods to other countries.  But we don't live in that world.

When COVID hit, Americans discovered that most antibiotics and N95 masks were made elsewhere and no longer readily available.  This is a problem when there is a disruption.  

I don't know what nations should do.  I do know that it is probably a very bad thing if the UK, for instance, can't produce steel anymore.  Similarly, I think it's bad for the world in general if a single country produces virtually all the manufactured goods (whether that be the USA, China, or whatever).

Just my 2 cents.

177,978 views 33 replies
Reply #26 from JoeUser Forums Top

Isn't it funny the republicans want lower taxes. :rofl:  

Reply #27 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting Iben, reply 26

Isn't it funny the republicans want lower taxes. :rofl:  

For themselves and their millionare and billionare comrades, not for the common people. These also pay the millions wasted for the president's golfing every WEEK. 

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Reply #28 from Stardock Forums Top


We don't generally allow politics on the forums.  With the obvious exception of The Political Machine. The Political Machine - The Power of the Presidency Can Be Yours! Forums

But the world trade situation is probably something worth discussing provided people can avoid assuming "the other" are stupid or evil or greedy or whatever.  

The bold font is mine (for emphasis).

Folks, let's please try and keep to the 'easy fit' guidelines.

In other words, policy, principles and ideas instead of people and parties.

Doc thanks you.  

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Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top


.....Just my 2 cents.

Brad, after I apply my Canuck-istan tariff's on your 2 cents......it becomes a whole nickel!

 

But seriously, in my elementary view of the situation I have observed the following:

1.  All non-domestic goods consumed by nations (at least the 'have' nations) have not been costing the consumer reality-dollars for a long time.

2.  The disparity created by the wildly disproportionate equations of fantasy-dollar cost vs reality-dollar cost, real production cost and market-adjusted valuation on goods has created a fantasy-economy.

The above have created a world where nothing is really worth what is should be.  Goods and services, salaries, rents, leases, and yes taxes have all lagged in realistic valuation.  Profit-driven production will always seek to lower costs, and in a fantasy-economy this can have devastating long-term impact.  We are living that impact now.

 

How do we come back down to earth?  Not without pain.  Any form of incentive used to re-stimulate domestic production is going to have deal with the painful process of:

1.  creating the value proposition for industry now enduring massive domestic production cost increases (salaries, wages, rents, leases and taxes etc.) without resorting to tax breaks etc.

2.  managing devastating consumer cost/debt when shifting from fantasy-dollar closer to reality-dollar cost

3.  assuaging staunch resistance to any kind of change, least of all such a fundamental shift both in policy and practice

At the end of the day, this is a global problem, something I can neither fully appreciate nor do I have the mental fortitude to suggest a REAL solution, so off to the politicians desk(s) it is. 

For better or for worse....

 

Reply #30 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The entire planet needs to get rid of ALL tariffs and work together for the benefit of all mankind!

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Reply #31 from JoeUser Forums Top

It has been my observation that demanding more always leads to receiving less.

Could demanding less lead to receiving more?

 

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Reply #32 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Iben, reply 31

It has been my observation that demanding more always leads to receiving less.

Could demanding less lead to receiving more?

 

No.

Reply #33 from Sins2 Forums Top

Quoting Iben, reply 31

It has been my observation that demanding more always leads to receiving less.

Could demanding less lead to receiving more?

 

I agree with this line of reasoning. I observe few people like feeling bullied or coerced, and are more likely to be altruistic or at least pro-social if they believe they are giving freely.

 

As for the topic, manufacturing as a proportion of the economy still makes up the same real GDP in the USA as in the 1940s. Yes, employment has declined because the jobs were mechanised.