Dev and evo or dev and not evo?

Evolution or not?

Hi space sinners! :)

In these days I'm chasing the one I consider (for me at least ;) ) as the most difficult achievement of Sins: having all the artifacts in one game without mod or custom .ini files. In the last playthrough I was really close and I was playing with Vasari and using the Kultorask titan, arguably one of the strongest in the first game.

 

When I read the Dev journal 10 of Sins II... well something came to my mind: I've seen the picture and maybe some minor change in weapon system but I cannot avoid asking myself -> where is the evolution?

 

To me the first thing of a game is being credible in its own game universe: I mean basically Sins talk about three races (four actually but anyway three as of now) which have invested everything to build the best warships ever invented and with Sins II it 'seems' that after a Diplomacy treaty and some Rebellion years those very three races are continuing producing the very same ships... what?!

 

Just to add an example of credible game world: you cannot give a laser weapon to a witcher because it's not consistent with its world and in the meantime you cannot expect that three races fighting for years will use the same ships blueprints again and again without evolution: that's not consistent with the game world in my opinion.

 

I'm expecting instead some real evolution of ships: ok maybe similar ships but evolved in some way and Sins II cannot be just some extra or different weapon MKII or something.

 

What do you think?

 

Thank you.

 

9,915 views 2 replies
Reply #1 Top

First, thank you for the observations and your question.

It's an interesting project because we get a lot of feedback that things have change too much and lot of feedback that things haven't changed enough. Navigating this dilemma requires we stick to a vision that frames everything then a set of rules of how to explore changes within that vision. A full explanation would be very long but here is a short list (not exhaustive) of some factors we consider when deciding how much something should change: Was it fun? Was it broken? Was it popular? Does its relationship to some new game system require changes? Does its relationship to other units require changes? Does it feel new given external elements changing around it? Does the lore require it change? 

The net result is some things haven changed dramatically, some not so much.

Now regarding this Titan in particular, the abilities didn't need to change as they meshed well with other changes to the game, they weren't broken, they were fun, they were lore consistent and they were popular. While the weapons have the same names, the actual functionality and relationship to other systems in the game are different and mechanically quite different (for example the Phase Missile launchers, point defense turrets, combat model, etc.). Next, there are many item upgrades that extend its functionality, some of which are unique to the titan or titans in general. These broaden the differentiation and customization of the unit. And some of them even change the overall appearance of the Titan. Regarding the lore, the Titans are ancient and actually predate the pre-exodus extant Empire and are the oldest ships. They were not part of the primary Dark Fleet but were summoned from deep space. In the original they were intended to look older and different in many ways from the other ships. We ended up making them a bit too different so we pulled them a little back into the same artistic space. More importantly, given their ancient design and the idea of some lost technology we thought it was more appropriate to be conversative from a lore evolution point of view. We also leaned a bit more into their lore by bringing back the Phase Cannon (never released in Rebellion) which is intended (after a balance pass) to be a super powerful weapon that begins the game in a state of disrepair (both visually and in terms of game mechanics). To activate it you have to repair the reactor which you can see damaged on the rear of ship. Once repaired the mesh will change as well.

Finally, each release of Sins II since last year reflects a constantly evolving game based on feedback, playtests, analytics, and number of other inputs. Who knows where this ship will end up...

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Reply #2 Top

I could only say thank you mr. for your wonderful answer: I like it so much that If I hadn't bought Sins II immediately upon EA release I would have now :)

I promise I'll try to do my best while properly answer to your points.

Easy things first: about the game vision I won't say literally anything because it's your idea and it must be respected whatever it is and that's what I think so on that my trust is 101% on you without even asking anything more. Of course I'm not considering Sins II still part of the envisioning meetings because it's present time: the vision of Sins II had to be done years before.

I like very much the subset of questions too and thank you again for having reported it: to be completely honest by reading those I must admit that they are very appropriate because I figured out immediately that they can help to track both the expectations of the hardcore gamers and of the new ones.

I must admit too I fear what happened with Starfield: being a fan of space games I was waiting that with the best hype ever and then it happened that the space on that game is merely a landscape done as easiest as possible. The result was that the space fans hardcore gamers gave to the game a 6 or 7 max out 10 but instead people who doesn't want to spend too much time and people who didn't know anything about space games loved the experience... hope those people will never go in real space maybe they will think space travel is just a click...

Anyway as you can figure out my fear is included in your questions: Was it fun and Was it popular are to me risky questions which should have some solid bounds to limit the acceptable answers. Countries at war of course invest into weapons evolution: when the USA encountered the Zero Japan airplanes the first time, they acted quickly (thanks USA :) ) to adapt their planes too and of course in the meanwhile only a dedicated tactics saved them from heavy losses.

Furthermore, a possible answer to: Does the lore require change? when not implementing a significant evolution on warships could only be a huge yes... well the reason is pretty obvious: the lore is basically saying that the strongest faction in game, the Vasari, with their current weapons systems are so terrified by the 4th faction that they merely are fleeing since 10.000 years and now since quite some time they are stuck here with their friends Advent and TEC.

By accepting that there won't be evolution we're basically saying that the odd vs the 4th faction are the same of Mass Effect races vs the Reapers... maybe even lesser than that :)

Of course that could be a choice to properly introduce the 4th faction or it could be a required step to be 100% in line with the vision of future steps of the saga so I cannot say that even choosing that is definitely and surely 100% wrong or 100% right.

By even seeing the SF recent experience I guess we could definitely say that gamers of today are very different from gamers in the Eigthies: we have both hardcore gamers, fans of something for whatever reason, casual gamers, new gamers just entered into the world (in the Eighties there were just hardcore ;) at least in my Country but considering Stranger Things it seems even in other places it was the same ;) ).

So a lot of those guys won't even notice whether or not upgrades are there and maybe those ones will be the majority. On the other hand I cannot be sure but I'd dare to guess that SoaSE lovers and lore fans just as we loved the moving planets for sure we love some significant and consistent with the world and your game vision upgrades.

About the Titan(s) part of your message: I kindly ask you If I can answer to that part specifically in another message (this one is already long sorry btw :) ) because I like so much what you wrote and I find it so fascinating that to me it needs a dedicated topic :)

Above everything else: thank you for taking time answering common people like me :)