What's with the Pricing Stardock???

GalCiv IV: Supernova is an expansion to GalCiv IV.  Typically we sell expansion packs for $29.99.

Since no version of GalCiv IV is available on Steam, we are bundling GalCiv IV + Supernova together as a single package.

People with GalCiv IV (base) can get the expansion pack for for around $15 which is a massive discount over a typical expansion.

The exchange rate may have a bit too do with this as the Pound has dropped a bit against the dollar since July. Pound down means price in pounds down not sure it accounts for all the 2.80 pound drop but might. 

If you sell expansion packs for $29.99 be prepared to starve man, unless it contains at least 50-70% of the full game as bare minimum.. Have a look at what's happening to Total War WH3 because of overpriced DLC's. Plus it seems that you're saying I got the game for about $29.99 and you want to price your DLC the same??? I'd reconsider that...

Supernova is no real expansion either, it's more of a massive update that allowed you to charge more for the game as it's shaping up to be ready for actual release. Galciv Crusader had just as much content for a price of £5 or so..... Just saying....

Anyway, I'm not here to argue with you. I own galciv 2, Galciv 3 and Galciv 4 among other Stardock titles. This feels like a spit in the face man. It's not about that extra £2-3, not because I can't afford it. I can, but sure as hell I'm not gonna buy it for this price. That discount on Epic should have been about 70% to make sure that all who got it in early access to support Stardock in the early stages not paying more than everybody else. I understand that everybody need to make money but man.... greed is a disgusting trait.

Our expansions, such as GalCiv III: Crusade and going all the way back to GalCiv I: Altarian Prophecy launched at $29.99. And neither of those expansions have near as much content as GalCiv IV: Supernova has.

No. GalCiv III: Crusade was $29.99 when it was released.    

What is a "spit in the face" is calling all the work and new features of Supernova as being only worth $5.  The integrated GalCiv IV: Supernova will be $49.99 at release (which is the standard list price for new 4X games btw).  Someone who bought GalCiv IV base on Epic paid $40.  They can get Supernova for about $15 for a total of $55.    So in, in effect, you would be paying $5.00 over the person who had to wait over a year and a half to get GalCiv IV + Supernova on Steam.

I agree, greed is a disgusting trait.

I find that extremely hard to believe. In 2004, when the recommended ram was 256MB, and 16MB video card, you charged $29.99 for an expansion?? Ten years ago you could get a full price AAA game for that....

There's no such thing as standard price mate. You charge what you think you can get for it, what you think it's worth and your community will decide what they're prepared to pay for it.

I never actually said that. That's your interpretation. 

This is the problem it seems. You think we are privileged ones here... We should be grateful for having the opportunity to buy your epic games exclusive, unfinished, early access game, help you test it, build it, leave feedback, suggestions so you can create something your customers might even like and we should pay for all this too? It's only $5 extra, right?

Supernova is NOT an expansion. It's simply an improvement over the game that is STILL in early access. If you want to label this as an expansion then why didn't you sell it as an expansion? I tell you why. BECAUSE THE BASE GAME IS IN EARLY ACCESS!! You knew if you want to sell this separately (especially for $29.99) you might as well close shop! No-one would buy any expansion for $29.99 for an unfinished early access title. Hence the integration, so you better stop calling it an expansion and trying to justify the price that way!! You figured that integration (and a new name, "Supernova" to make sure we all know this is big)  is the only way you can justify a price increase and I'm not saying you shouldn't. You NEED TO GET PAYED. Obviously. You worked on it, you seem to have done a good job, the popularity of the game seems to be increasing so WELL DONE! Nobody wants you all to work for free.

BUT.... trying to tell me as an early supporter that I should be grateful that I'm only paying $5 more than the others???? That is how you say "thank you" to people who helped you to even get here??? Do you understand that we are your customers? The money we're spending on your product is feeding your family!! Try to treat us as such, say Thank you and show your gratitude instead of trying to feed me crap! I know it's not you personally who's making the pricing decisions but it seems you're the one representing Stardock and the one I can talk to. This is NOT personal!

The base game on Epic is not in early access. It’s been released for over a year.

If you don’t think supernova is worth $15 then don’t buy it.

You still don't get it, do you? I'm not saying it's not worth $15. I don't actually know if it's worth it but it seems it is. What I said and keep saying is that we, the early supporters paying more combined than anybody else because the discount you've given us is not high enough. 

You worked out that the DLC should cost us $15 but you've given us only 60% discount which was supposed to compensate for the fact that we already bought the base game for £22.99 but guess what? It doesn't. £33.50x0.6=£20.1

You see? I do not have a problem with paying for your work. I have a problem with paying for your work more than others just because I was an early supporter. Does that sound OK to you? It sounds wrong and dodgy to me man. At the very least we deserve the same combined price!!

I know not much you can say to all this but I suggest you taking this up with your superiors. If the discount won't change then I'm gonna  wait for a deep sale so you'll still get some money from me, it's just not gonna be as much as you'd be getting (so in a way I'm gonna pay a discounted price for your work) and you'll be getting it a lot later. I got time, I can wait.

On top of that you lot can be 100% sure that this was the last time I paid for any of your early access titles and I hope I won't be the only one!

In the meantime I'll have a look on Reddit to see if anybody else caught this? If not I'll make sure people hear about it.

That’s what I’d recommend for you.  Games get cheaper the longer someone waits. 

GalCiv III was $44.99 on its own when it first came out. Then the expansions and DLCs come out and various bundles are cheaper when bought together than if someone has bought the base game and every DLC as they came out. There was a recent sale where GC3 could be bought for $12 which included Crusade and Retribution expansions.

You bought GC4.  It has and will continue to get its own set of updates and improvements.  After Supernova ships, we're going to be doing a major update to the base game to bring over fixes and performance enhancements but not the new features and content found in Supernova. Now, a year later Supernova, the first expansion, shows up.  The bundled price is cheaper than the cost of GC4 a year ago plus the expansion now.

So if you want to save the most money, just wait.  The longer you wait the less it’ll probably cost.

Yet, We pay more a year later....

Oh man, I just noticed your CEO badge. There's no superior to talk to. I'm talking to the Boss.

I used to look up to you. I bought Galciv 2 to my friend so we can play together. I own and played most Stardock titles. See under the same username on Steam, although not everything I played is there. I'd still play them if I had a friend to play them with...

I know you know that you're wrong and this is something you didn't take into account when you priced the bundle. All you had in mind that the expansion should cost $15 so in order to get that I need to give them 60%. I also know you'll never say this out loud, let alone admitting it on the forum.

Why would you upset long time fans and supporters for a few bucks? I'm a hard working 47 year old guy, I can afford it, but it comes down to principle. The gaming industry full of greedy suits. I know you used to play your own games, that's why they were good. You used to be different. It's a shame that this is what it came down to.

Finally, please read your own words about Early access on Steam:  

“Yes, we are aiming for a reduced Early Access price for those who support the game while we add additional content during the Early Access period.”

I wonder where our reduction has gone? Shame on you Brad.

Again:  Galactic Civilizations IV, the base game, was released in May 2022.  That's over a year ago.  You bought that game.  That game has been updated many times and will continue to be updated. 

You exchanged money for a product and received your product.  GalCiv IV, base game is completed. It's not in early access.

You got a discount on the early access of GalCiv IV.  GalCiv IV, on Epic, went up to $49.99 after release. You got it for $39.99 for joining the early access for it pre-May 2022.

You with me so far?  

Just in case because we don't seem to be on the same wave length here:

You already got what you paid for. You are not entitled to anything beyond that original product after it left early access in May 2022. 

Despite that, we have continued to update and support GalCiv IV (the base game on Epic).  We have major updates coming to the base game later this year.

Now what about Supernova?

Now, it's September 2023.  The first expansion pack for Galactic Civilizations IV is coming out. It's called GalCiv IV: Supernova.

On Epic, you can get that for $14.99.  That's a lot less than a normal expansion pack ($29.99 -- the amount we charged for GalCiv III: Crusade when it first launched).  In fact, in 30 years of Stardock, we have never released an expansion pack of this magnitude for less than $19.99.  Even GalCiv I: Altarian Prophecy was $19.99 back in 2004 dollars.

On Steam, GalCiv IV base game is not being released. The stand-alone base game will remain only on Epic.  Instead, on Steam is the base game + Supernova combined together.  That game will be $49.99 when it is completed.  

So the base game ($39.99) + the expansion ($14.99) is about $55.  Or $5.00 more than the bundle even though the bundle is coming out a year and a half later.  That is a tremendously good deal for those who bought the Epic game.  

Sure you did. GalCiv II was single player.

Next year, around this time, there will be ANOTHER expansion pack released for GalCiv IV.  And it too, when bundled with GalCiv IV + Supernova + FutureExpansion will cost less than if you had bought GalCiv IV and then Supernova and the new expansion separately.  Just like every other game out there. 

BUNDLES are cheaper than the individual game.  No one made a pricing mistake. 

When people talk about gamer entitlement, this is what they mean. 

The only possible options here are:

A. You don't realize that GalCiv IV, on Epic, the base game, is not in early access and was released a  year and a half ago.  

or

B. You believe you are simply entitled to Supernova because...you bought the base game a couple years ago and feel entitled to it.

or

C. You believe that the upgrade price on Supernova should be equal to or less than the bundled price.  Now if this is the case, I just disagree with you.  Bundles are always cheaper.  There's no "greed" involved.  Insulting me for this is uncalled for.   You can even switch over and get a Steam key for Supernova for $14.99 right now I believe.

I am still hoping it's option A.  If it's B, that you think you should just get stuff for free, then we have nothing more to discuss.  If it's C, then we'll have to agree to disagree.  The bundle is only $5 less than the cost for buying the original in early access + the expansion. That's a great deal.  

I've probably spent more than I should on Stardock games over the years, but I don't regret any of it. I've also gotten more freebees from the company than anyone has a right to expect. So to me, accusing them of greed seems a bit odd.

The fact that I got offered a completely unexpected discount on the expansion felt pretty awesome. That more people will be able to buy the game as a bundle on Steam is also pretty cool. The fact that, as an early supporter, I paid more than those new players does not bother me. That would be akin to being upset a game you payed for and enjoyed getting offered for free years later.

I will just add one thought.    There was no requirement for Stardock to give Steam access to people who bought gc4 and supernova on epic.   But they did, and I got my game moved to Steam for free.  A modest fee would not have been unreasonable at all.   If I had done things at the right time maybe I could have avoided this.   But I still appreciate it.    The idea that somehow Stardock is ripping off their customers is TO ME is unsuportable.   In a capitalist economy supply and demand will reward/punish outliers.  Ok, I'm a fanboy based on games and apps I have purchased from Stardock.

I'm a happy customer since GC2. People may have forgotten, but before Steam PC games were not cheap. Even before the internet a good game was $40-50 at GameStop or wherever. Now at least you have sales and prices tend to drop over time.

Keep up the good work, Frogboy and company.

Cheers,
CB

Is SetaX under the illusion he joined a Founders Edition group? The thing you guys ran that left us with the thrill of seeing our name in the Credits for GalCiv3 (The scroll - and it's a biggie - is on Youtube!) for our suggestions and ideas and patience and for all that, we'd get the Base Games and DLCs and Expansions included in the USD$99.00 we paid when we signed up to be a Founder?

I knew when I joined GalCiv4 you weren't running a Founders Edition so when I paid whatever USD$, I wasn't paying one price and getting GalCiv4 And All DLCs And Expansions for that initial price I paid...

Totally agree and understand that a Bundle is cheaper than One Game.

You might want to read the whole discussion. I stated multiple times that I would/will pay for the work that's been put into it. We were just disagreeing about pricing decisions.

Please don't tell me that this whole thing is because you object to the $5 delta between the bundled price and the price of GC4 + Supernova separately.  Because bundles, like I've said previously, are always cheaper than individual purchases.  This is not a new concept in economics.

My bad. I bought it for him nevertheless. He didn't like it much, only played it 9.1 hours. He's loss.

Clear and agreed. Fair trade, I've never questioned it.

Now this is just all wrong!

Please note, the exchange rate of GBPUSD is 1.73-1.79

First of all there's no Supernova expansion that can be had for $14.99. The upgraded price currently is on EPIC is £33.50, which is $59.99!

I would need to pay (with the 60% discount to upgrade) £13.40 which is $24! Just to be clear: $24 is 60% more than $15! 60%!!

Just in case, I checked the EPIC to STEAM transfer price, that's even worse. £15.99 which is about $28!! Now that's almost double to what you're claiming it costs!

If it was $15 I'd pay that right now!!! Take my money. But it isn't, is it?

Simple math again: Galciv 4 when I got it: £22.99/$39.99 Supernova upgrade: £13.40/$24 Altogether: $63.99 This means we (early supporters) are basically penalized compared to everybody else. We're the one who supported the game from the the get go and and yet we're the ones paying the most.

The base game on EPIC costs £33.50/$59.99 Guess what? Supernova also costs £33.50/$59.99 That doesn't make much sense, right? Who'd buy the base game? So are you charging money for Supernova or not? Judged by Epic's pricing you're giving it away for free!??  

Send me a link where I pay the $15 and I pay it now. Even better, send me a link where I can pay the exact same as others, an extra $18 so my combined price would be £33.50 I'd pay it, no problem. Right now my discounted early access priced game and supernova upgrade costs more than it is for everybody else. You're saying it's a great deal. For whom?

I DON'T want/need free stuff. But yeah, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. You think this is ok and fair, I think it's not very nice, to say the least.

Where are you paying $ 1.79 to the pound? The rate according to The Bank of England is 1.2476 dollars to the Pound. as of 7 Sept. . This is about .$.80 to 1 pound  or $15.99 = 12.8166 pounds at the 7 Sept quote.

I could see your point if the rate was 1.79 to 1 that would be cheaper for you. As it is it appears that if 13.40 Pounds is the price Steam puts on the game that you gripe is with Steam it would be them that are charging the extra $0.04 per pound not Stardock. Also it may well be the bank that exchanges your Pounds to Dollars as they not Steam or Stardock charge the exchange fee and $ 0.60 on $15.99 is well in the margin I remember when I was in Europe and changing Dollars to Marks. 

So either way it is Steam or your Bank that you should be complaining to as they are the ones collecting the money.

That's because Supernova is in early access and the base game is not.  Supernova (the bundle) will go up to $49.99 at release. Right now it's $39.99 which is the same as the base game (which is $39.99 because after a year the base price went down as is typical).

Here is where you can migrate from GalCiv IV (base) to GalCiv IV: Supernova on Steam (Base game + Supernova) for $15.99. Galactic Civilizations IV: Supernova - Steam Upgrade (galciv4.com)

So after gypsy2299's comment I went to double check the exchange rate and he is right and I was wrong with the pricing all along. I owe you an apology Brad/Frogboy. Yesterday morning, before I wrote my last reply and I went to check the exchange rate and I saw (or I thought I did) on my app 1.77 GBPUSD. I was honestly thinking that all those prices that you posted here was made up or old or something and it just didn't make any sense. That is why I was so upset. I'm very sorry.

What I ended up doing is that I paid the £13.40 on Epic and transferred the game over to Steam for free, so thank you for that. That is actually a very nice thing for you to allow us to do. I still think charging us extra as early supporters stinks but if I include the fact that we at least can transfer the game over to Steam for free then it's kinda ok. Not many (if any) developer allows us to do that.

Again, very sorry for my oversight about the pricing in my previous post, it's truly embarrassing. :( 

It happens and to be honest if not for my year living in then West Germany and later a bunch of irate European Union members complaints of games being the same price in Euros as in USDs I would not have caught or even thought about it.

After much whining on their part it turned out that even with $11.00 US being 10.00 euros they were still being charged 11.00 Euros. Turns out they forgot about the 10% Value Added Tax.

Quoting SetaX, reply 20

So after gypsy2299's comment I went to double check the exchange rate and he is right and I was wrong with the pricing all along. I owe you an apology Brad/Frogboy. Yesterday morning, before I wrote my last reply and I went to check the exchange rate and I saw (or I thought I did) on my app 1.77 GBPUSD. I was honestly thinking that all those prices that you posted here was made up or old or something and it just didn't make any sense. That is why I was so upset. I'm very sorry.

What I ended up doing is that I paid the £13.40 on Epic and transferred the game over to Steam for free, so thank you for that. That is actually a very nice thing for you to allow us to do. I still think charging us extra as early supporters stinks but if I include the fact that we at least can transfer the game over to Steam for free then it's kinda ok. Not many (if any) developer allows us to do that.

Again, very sorry for my oversight about the pricing in my previous post, it's truly embarrassing.  

Glad you got it sorted out SetaX! It's really to your honour that you came back here to apologize when realizing your mistake.  Might be a good idea to add an Edit at the start to your original message

I was also very surprised and impressed by Stardock offer to transfer our game from Epic to Steam for free. Kudos to them!

Quoting SetaX, reply 20

So after gypsy2299's comment I went to double check the exchange rate and he is right and I was wrong with the pricing all along. I owe you an apology Brad/Frogboy. Yesterday morning, before I wrote my last reply and I went to check the exchange rate and I saw (or I thought I did) on my app 1.77 GBPUSD. I was honestly thinking that all those prices that you posted here was made up or old or something and it just didn't make any sense. That is why I was so upset. I'm very sorry.

What I ended up doing is that I paid the £13.40 on Epic and transferred the game over to Steam for free, so thank you for that. That is actually a very nice thing for you to allow us to do. I still think charging us extra as early supporters stinks but if I include the fact that we at least can transfer the game over to Steam for free then it's kinda ok. Not many (if any) developer allows us to do that.

Again, very sorry for my oversight about the pricing in my previous post, it's truly embarrassing.  

No worries.  We have all been there.  

Welcome aboard!

Also, coming soon:

A Galactapedia!