motion, why dont you give them a link to "the bible for dummies"

Well, here is what I think, from the scientific point of view, from the common reason point view, creation is utterly absurde and insult to one'inteligence. The Universe is cca 12-15 bilion years old, Earth cca 4,5, homosapiens evolved cca 1 milion years ago and a mith of God cca 5.000 tears ago.So just a simple question - Why is it that God waited, say 12 bilion years to give a Jesus? If God is omnicence, than by definition, he new that Adam and Eve would commit a crime by picking the famous aple and he didnot stoped them to do that. On the contrary, he let tham commit a sin, usually refered to as EASTERN SIN only to punish the whole humanity with a certain death.
This story is so insulting, that if nothing else ( but there is much more ),I would NEVER,EVER accept such kind of God. To beleive in any God, one must volunterely suspend his or her own common sense and live a life on dogmas and blind faith.Statistics says that in the name of Jesus,Alah,Buda or any selfproclamide divinity, more people were killed in the course of the history than for all other causes together.Why would any sane person believe in anything that is beyond any common reason, without a shread of evidence to support religious beleives? Someone has putit nicely : Absence of evidence is evidence of absence ".
By expressing my personal view of Religion I have no intention to offend those who are belivers. I am a Atheist and a commited democrat

Some gathered and random thoughts from Kona:

First of all i read in Bible (yes i stronly believe in it) that if I am persucuted or put down for being a Christian I shall have a place in heaven.

Some of the posts here could be seem as put downs to Christians. Saying there is no God is just plain otright blasphemy. To those who do not believe: open your eyes.

For the day shall come when every mouth shall confess and knee shall bow that Jesus is your Lord and God.

When that day comes I will be laughing at those who said there is no God!

I still say Creation has evidence: the bible. Some of you choose not to believe the bible's accounts because of stupid reasons like "It was written by Men"

Anyways....

The ethos of Religion has been corrupted to serve the arrogance of those in history demanding power and control over others.

Religion 'may' be the 'opiate of the masses'....but it's also the rallying point for generations of dissent and conflict as one flavour demands its place in dominance over other 'flavours' of the same animal.

Organised Religion is little different from organised militia or even gang-mentality.

Belief in something beyond the tangible, in whatever name is what it WAS all about...but sadly most people have lost the point, preferring to treat Religion like their football codes.

 

Personally, Religion sucks lemons in its current gestation/s and I refuse to be either a sheep OR a lemming.

I'll answer to MY maker in the way it is supposed to be.....one on one....

"When that day comes I will be laughing at those who said there is no God!"


How very christian of you Kona.
[Message Edited]

thank you!

Please understand that I did not say that I do not believe in God. That will always remain private. What I did say was that I don't believe in the need for religion, organized or otherwise. That is all. I was baptized a Christian. I married a Jewish woman. When both religions said we could not do that, that is when I told them to go......
[Message Edited]

I should have said I shall be rejoicing to finally meet my maker and be sad that others have not.

Kona ,how would you treat all the people who were raised under a different religeon ,who never heard of christ until they were already firmly established in their own beliefs.In their mind,asking them to believe in christ would be like asking YOU to deny christ.Something you would probably never do.Why would you or even God(especially God) condemn such a person for holding onto their beliefs.Too many problems with a single religeon claiming exclusive knowledge of the truth.

#13  by  Kona0197 - 9/13/2003 6:04:31 PM The hell with that. You pick california you stay there. We people in Oregon don't like Californian people moving here!

And this is how you act............  thumping the Bible in here, acting like this in another thread......
it's so typical .................

I'm pretty sure that was just a joke

Yes the comment I made in the other thread was a joke. Koa, like usuaul is tryin to yank my chain. After all I did put a smiley face after waht I said.

Besides we all have shortcomings. I am not perfect, nor is any Christian or any man.

Koa, your comment really deserves no response. > >

Kona, you do realise that if you were born in Koweit, you'd be a muslim, if you were born in Nepal, you'd be boudhist. You're a Christian only by accident because you were born in a Christian country. How can you be so sure that you believe in the right God?

Faith.

Kona,

You'd have faith in the others, if you were born into them. Doesn't necessarily make you wrong, but you have to bear in mind that religious correctness is in the eye of the beholder.

I did not mean to say other relegions were wrong. Sorry about the miscommunication.

How do you guys explain muslims and other religions (including Jewish) converting to Christanity? Just curious because the rate this is happening is off the chart.

I've seen people convert from Christianity to Muslim (etc.) as well.

I think at some point, if someone has doubts in their faith, some will strengthen it in their current religion, some will change religions, and so on. I know of a preacher who left the church (and Christianity) after some 20 years in the faith, because he could no longer convince himself that it was the right path.

My belief is like the quote from 'The Prophet', there is but one Spirit (God), and the path you take to honor God is less important than the fact that you honor Him.

I think the point that religion takes a twist is where they dictate that in order to be a true believer you must not only believe in the specific God attached to the religion but that all others must convert, or broil.

Of course from a marketing stand point, you do not present your product as if it is just as good as any other, that it is ok to try the rest first because it is known you will eventually stick with the *ours*, and so on...

Odd that...

Anyone watched the Movie Stigmata? The scroll thought to be written by the hand of Jesus?

In it you are told that your body is your church, and you need no one between you and your god.

Guess that is why so many seem to refute it and the Vatican locked it away from the public.

Exactly Kona. There are as many people converting from Christianity to Boudism and Islam than the other way around.

My point is believe in God, fine. But understand that religion is just a way to express your faith. As I've said before, although I do generally consider myself athiest, I'm not a convinced one. I don't think there is a God, but I do admit there could be one. But I do very energically consider myself anti-religious. I think religions have always had for purpose to take advantage of people's faith in God to manipulate them. I know it's true for christianity (read about Saul, read about the first Counsils), I know it's true for Islam (the early fight between Shia and Suni about the true heir of Mahomet, is all about power and control: who should be the Imam). I don't know enough about Boudism though; it appears to be a more peacefull religion, but it could just be a misconception.

Actually, IPlural,

The scroll described in Stigmata was the Gospel of St Thomas, a gnostic document found in Nag Hamadi in the early part of this century.


Unlike the four books of the apostles in the New Testament, the Gospels of Thomas are not written in verses, but in more of a question and answer format (with the answers being Jesus's).

My favorite verses from this document are:

"Split a piece of wood -- I am there; lift the stone and you will find me there."

Jesus said: "If those who lead you say to you 'Behold the kingdom is in heaven,' then the birds of heaven will precede you;if they say to you that it is in the sea, then the fish will precede you. But the kingdom is within you and it is outside of you."

huh?

me no understand jiberish.

I R smaRt and think U not smart




I wonder though, what are the phycological effects of religion on a human being. does it help do deal with life and do you live longer (Like for example Budism) or having faith in unexplained things leave you in a state of trouble?

Ok I did a double take when I saw the topic in the list..I think a person's religious beliefs are just that, personal.

The scroll described in Stigmata was the Gospel of St Thomas, a gnostic document found in Nag Hamadi in the early part of this century.

Thats the one. But it goes a bit deeper from the things I've read. It caused a furor in the church and they denouced it.

I did some looking around after seeing the movie because it seemed to be something important. To see if it realy did/does exist and what became of it.

I like the idea of there being something for those who need outside intervention to keep them as level headed in dealing with others. To help prompt them to live as one with others, so I do not see faith and religion in and of itself as being negative.

But as Jafo pointed out, it has always been used as a tool for those craving power. Even those who wrap themselves in the robes of Earthly divinity.

Isn't there something about "Let no man come before me"? Yet all religions pretty much dictate there are always those above and at some point there is the last above you before you reach God.

TV Evanglisits for one thing really blow me away, remember the Tower of Power?

anyway...

No. 75, yes they are personal, but that does not mean one can not discuss them with others whom are willing.

It is when it is force fed that it is wrong, beliefs that is.

A recent creationist plea is for "balanced treatment" in the classroom: "Let us present creationism along with evolution, so students can make an informed choice. That's only fair isn't it?" (The spirit of fairness doesn't seem to prompt them to invite biologists to present a "balanced treatment" of evolution at revival meetings or Sunday school, though.)
OK, let's go along with it. In 9th grade biology let's do evolution on the first day of the school year--then we'll proceed to "alternative theories of origins" and "intelligent design theories." Tuesday we'll cover the Algonquin creation myth, Wednesday the Shinto, Thursday the Yoruba, Friday--Mayan. Next week it's Pawnee, Inuit, Mogollon, Hindu, and Zoroastrian. We'll get to the Hebrew adaptation of the Babylonian (as recorded in Genesis) the third Thursday in May (if we don't have a fire drill).

One of the Big Lies of creationism is that there are only two alternatives, and that by "defeating evolutionism" (sic), the only possible remaining alternative is the Genesis myth. (Those of us who have Seen the Truth know that the TRUE creation account is that preserved since the Beginning by the !kung bushmen of South Africa.)