Founders: October 2018

Do you want us to post our thoughts here or is there another way?

Hi Brad - I've got a few suggestions that you might consider:

Captain's Log

I like the captain's log, but it would be deeply improved if it were searchable. If you're porting to consoles I think you could keep it simple as a keyword search. So each captain's log entry would be tied to pre-determined keywords, such as "Tywom", "Drenkend", etc.. Even this level of search would make things much easier than scrolling through the whole thing.

There's a lot of overlap between the captain's log and the Objectives list. I would love to have the possibility to click on an "objective" and have it link me to the relevant part of the captain's log. As it stands I barely use the objectives list because it gives far less information and serves more as a checklist.

Captain's log entries that include a destination should link to the starmap rather than offer to plot a course. Or maybe give the option for one or the other? I would like to know where the system is before I start burning fuel to get there.

Exploration

I quite enjoy the exploration of stars as I make my way from quest destination to destination. I love looking out for the hidden starbases, and I like getting to a system to find crashed ships and ruins, etc.. It's a relaxing, chill experience, but I can understand that some may find it tedious. One thing I have found frustrating is when I've been asked to collect an amount of some resource and I just have to float around from system to system, checking each planet for what I need. There are two things that could help alleviate the tedium in this case:

1) Give me the option to not sell ALL of my resources when I hit the trade screen. I don't know in advance what I might need. I thought, erroneosly, that "conventionals" would not be requested in quests because of the way you can sell them all at once. It seemed like a hint that I shouldn't sell off my orange and purple resources just in case. Because of this I have half a cargo hold full of orange and purple resources because I might need them at some point. But if I had the option to sell all but 100 or something, I'd feel much more comfortable.

2) Would you consider adding a tech that acts as a resource "sniffer"? For example, at some point I need Argon for a quest, so I program the "sniffer" to sniff for Argon. Upon entering a system, it simply reports that it smells Argon if there is any Argon in the system. That way if I just want to focus on completing the quest I could go straight to a new system rather than check each planet. To be clear, the sniffer wouldn't tell me which planet the Argon is on, just that there is at least one Argon somewhere in the system.

3) I think it would be appropriate that any system where we have discovered the location of a species' homeworld is marked as a home system on the star map. Having to search through the captain's log because I don't remember which star in the Xiphios cluster has a homeworld in it is more cumbersome than it should be. I can, of course, use the Marker function, and I do, but I think homeworlds should be automatically marked.

Planetary Elements

I think the lander game needs a bit of fine-tuning. Could we have an alt-fire lock-on feature or something? I find on rough terrain I have a devil of a time getting my laser to hit my target.  There does seem to be some auto-aiming going on, but I find it more frustrating than it needs to be. It's not the kind of challenge that makes me feel accomplished, rather the kind of challenge that makes me feel like beating things in spite of the controls. Having said that, it works, just I think it could work a lot better.

I also find the ease with which the lander flips over and re-orients is a bit much. Basically, rough worlds are a pain to move around on. That was probably the intention, but again, the pain doesn't feel like a challenge in the game rather than a challenge in the controls. I'm not a designer.. there's probably a better way to say what I said, but that's the simplest way I have of expressing it. I wonder if the z-factor simply could stand to be reduced on the topography?

With regards to the "play" element of the lander game, I'd like to suggest something. What if you implemented some sort of racing sim element to resource collection? Like a combo/bonus sort of game?  For example, each resource you pick up gives you a short timer and if you get the next one within that timeframe you get a bit of extra something. Maybe staying within the same colour gives you more bonus? I'm just thinking about ways to keep it in an arcade-style game but add a little more "game" to the system. As I've said many times before, I'm not a designer, but maybe it's an idea you could work with? Reviews I read online of the game seem to malign the resource extraction component more than any other aspect of the game. As I mentioned earlier, I find it relaxing and chill, but I understand if others find it tedious.

Ship Combat

My ONLY complaint is the sound effects when your shot hits the enemy or you take a hit. I think it's way too quiet.

Overall, this is a great game! I'm really happy with what you delivered. My comments are things I think would really improve what's already great, but I'm happy with it the way it is. Great job! Thank you thank you thank you for making this game

Ok we do this here then. I'll just write up some random thoughts in no particular order.

Future enemies.

Granted the Scryve were powerful and evil but they somehow failed to inspire fear. Their goals and methods were brutal but very obvious. I would like to see some type of enemy where it's very difficult to figure them out until the end, and whose methods are creepy.

Going rogue

I would like the option to have Starcontrol become the next baddies. It would have to be under extreme pressure and not just flipping a switch. Like, we have the nukes and out of desperation we end up blowing up a homeworld, causing other races to band together to fight us.

Sphere of influence

The part where the Scryve expanded by occupying systems with ships was interesting to me and I want to be able to do that for humans. This would involve being able to built fleets and defensive fortifications in a sort of mission type minigame but it would add a strategic element without ending up as a 4x game.

Precursors

This needs to become more prominent in the future. There were too few references to them and even fewer benefits of finding info about them.

Crashed ships

I think this part was way too plain. It would be more interesting to scavenge parts or blueprints from these ships and then be able to build them yourself or use the tech to upgrade human cruisers. It felt very weird to fly with a fleet of nothing but alien ships.

Critter lives matter

After a few planets I just stopped caring about the critters there. It simply was not worth it to stun or kill them. They need to have more purposes for quests, tech or something besides a danger to your lander.

Random events

Strange portals, wormhole to the past, marauding space bands, Space-borne menace, Quantum flux planets and so on. To add a little bit more variation and danger to the exploring part.

I would like to have several layers of "space" that can be added on @top@ and @below@. Something like HOMM3 or Age of Wonders @above@ and @below@ layers. Can be used for @quasi@ space or something.  Like a universe within a universe w/o Origins.

I want more planets with rings ; Landable Comets and asteroids.

I want space monsters.

More variety of every possible asset - critters, surface objects, aliens, ships, weapons, modules etc. Critter bosses (@VUX beast@ type of thing).

More derelict space ships.

Slave shields....

Remove "all notes from starmap button". Remove all @pink@, @yellow@, @etc.@ references from starmap.

New game + mode, i.e. you can start the new game, all will reset save for your ship and modules.

And if NDA allows - I want to know developments re F&P situation.

All these ideas are super helpful.

Posting them here lets us all here at Stardock take a look and see how we can make those ideas a reality.

Alien Races

While there were a lot of aliens in SCO, I felt that most were either too flippant or too shallow. Each did have a very unique style but that seemed only skin deep. A lot of them were like "Oh the Scryve kill us at random but that's normal" I would like to see more aliens with their own agenda in relation to the main plot. Humans can't be the only ones trying to find a way of resisting some evil overlord.

Ruins

A lot more needs to be done with these. There were rarely any follow-up missions or unexpected encounters with lost races. Finding ruins and then figuring out what happened should be a major part of exploring. 

Covert manipulation

It should be possible for humans to trick other evil or morally lacking races into waging war upon each other or something similar. Just accepting everyone into the Alliance because of a bigger threat is nice but rather short sighted.

Building up Earth

Bringing all those tons of rare resources did very little to help our own solar system. There should be a way to visibly see progress for that sense of accomplishment.

Planet Landing: 
Get rid of the 3-D terrain. Tedious, not at all fun, and just makes cruising for minerals take minutes rather than seconds. And that makes the resource collection part of the game take 70-80% of the total playtime rather than the 20-30% it should. Seriously, time yourselves on how much time is spent crawling through a solar system collecting minerals and how much is spent in meaningful interactions with alien civilizations. It is a major problem.

Storytelling:

More resources devoted to the writing, development of alien cultures, the history of the aliens, etc. There was very shallow history between alien species in SC:O. It was basically just the Menkmack (Umgah analog) playing a few tricks on the nearby species and the Plinthi got the Mowlings sick. Aside from the Scryve vaguely oppressing the rest through genetic manipulation that was it. For species living so close and interacting for such a long period of time that is a really shallow amount of history. There is SO much room for exploration here in terms of storytelling. What about an inter-species marriage? Old feuds? Multi-species trade cartels within different regions of space that hate each other or are actively competing over certain systems for resources? Why is the SC:O universe so damn stagnant in the sense that entire sentient species are just monolithically lumped together? There's like ONE rebel faction fighting off the Overmind. Seriously, this kind of storytelling in this day and age is so childish. Just look at India for example to see how much diversity of opinions and ethnicities you can have within a single country. Look at the Syria conflict to see how many divergent ideologies and factions can emerge from a single conflict? Then there's SC:O where an intergalactic empire is just monolithic. It's really lazy and uninspired writing. There's no other way to put it. The ideological split between Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah was breathtaking, especially because the reason for the ideological split was so well fleshed out. While horrific and evil, it was totally understandable how the Ur-Quan ended up the way they did. Whereas the Scryve.... Yeah, I don't think I need to go into vivid detail on all the ways SC:O's storytelling failed, but suffice to say it did fail. It was not epic. And it did not feel like I was enjoying the tale of a master storyteller. Please work on this, either through hiring more or better writers.

Alien Diversification/Development:

This feeds right back into the storytelling issues and from browsing the forum it seems it's a pretty universal sentiment. We don't need MORE races. We need more complexity and development within the existing races. The Tywom are a joke. So really are the Mu'Kay. The stories of their civilizations are honestly laughable. Hey we're the nerdy slug guys that nobody likes. Be our friend! This has the psychological complexity of a Burger King crown. If you sit down with an actual nerd who has no friends, I can guarantee you they have a much more complex take on life and a much more intricate rationale for justifying why they are living a life with no friends. Seriously, whoever is writing this content needs to take their own work and their audience more seriously. The lack of intellect in the development of the alien civilizations is insulting.

Think just how difficult it is for a species to coordinate efforts and knowledge enough that they can achieve space flight. Then think how many orders of magnitude more sophisticated a culture needs to be to achieve interstellar travel. Does this seem like the kind of thing that a planet of idiots could achieve? Like honestly, I don't get why the writer/writers of SC:O thought it was cute to create species that seem imbecilic. The Mu'Kay seem like idiot squids who just want to travel the galaxy in search of fish. The Tywom are annoying slugs who want friends. The Menkmack are just sleazy businessmen. Except a civilization that spans multiple planets and has obtained the power of fusion/interstellar flight very likely has already achieved a level of technological sophistication where material scarcity no longer exists. So wth would they still have a culture of sleazy merchants? Quite simply they wouldn't. This again is lazy writing at work and it's insulting. In today's era, there's no excuse for putting out drivel this shallow. Do I think the Menkmack are funny? Yes, I do. But do I think they come across like cheap entertainment that belongs more in a Sunday cartoon than an epic SF saga, yes I also do. 

And did SC2 do this? Yes to a degree. Like the Thraddash. They are somewhat unbelievable in that they are so dumb yet somehow still achieved space flight. Then again, look at their history. It is a satirical comment on the self-destructiveness of us as humans. They nuked themselves to the stone age multiple times. SC2 was made in the 90s, soon after the cold war, so I can see how this sort of theme was front and center in the psyches of the creators at that time. So, while it is a pretty shoddy scientific extrapolation of how a war-inclined culture would develop, it still has some intellectual value in its commentary on humanity. I see no value whatsoever in learning the story of the Drenkend. In fact, I couldn't even remember their damned name and had to go look it up. That is how useless and generic that storyline was.

But if you look at the other races of SC2, you'll see more depth. The Yehat, while space-faring, were still a culture dedicated to honor and a matriarchy. Is this somewhat archaic for a spacefaring civilization? Yes, but could be plausible through a variety of explanations. The biology of the Yehat had more tribal/communal inclinations etc. And this characteristic of their civilization had a direct impact on their role in the game. The Pkunk were space psychics. Is this possible in a sophisticated culture? Yes, it is plausible that an alien species upon reaching material sophistication decided to turn towards a more spiritual form of evolution.

The Chenjesu-Mhhrnhm/Chmmr. Another cool idea for a civilization. They were crystalline beings so their technology, mode of communication, and ship design were based on light refraction/focusing, lasers etc. That makes sense for beings of their body chemistry. Silicone based life form was a really interesting idea. And their story/role in the game was based around exactly that, their unique body chemistry and their technological focus on energy manipulation. 

While it's not hard SF by any means, at the least there is a real dedication to attempting to create cultures with unique characteristics and a proper extrapolation of how these characteristics would develop certain types of civilizations.

I hope Brad takes a hard look at the races of SC:O and realizes that they do not match up by any means. The Mewlings are literally just sentient lemmings. But they didn't really create anything special with this suicidal culture of theirs, nor is their ship design at all indicative of their culture. Unlike the Shofixti, which were a play on space raccoon Japanese kamikaze. And their ship design completely played into that. 

If you are going to make a sequel or expansions, put the vast majority of the money into better writers please. I think the majority of us came to experience a magical story, not a 3-D planet lander mini-game. I would pay northwards of $300 for an epic saga in space that could rival the likes of SC2. I wouldn't pay one cent for that stupid lander game where I just watch some dinky car roll around some rough terrain and slurp up colored dots. That should be a game for adolescent lemurs to play to test their IQ, not for humans. 

Probably the easiest illustration of just how stark the difference is in terms of characterization and cultural development is to look at the wiki page explaining the races in the game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Control_races

Just look at how long the descriptions for the SC2 aliens take compared to SC:O. Look at this description for the Scryve:

The Scryve are the supreme power and primary antagonist in the Mid Spur making other species either their wards or dead. Humanity is targeted for destruction by the Scryve because of their inclination towards freedom.

Now look at the description for just the Kzer-Za:

The Ur-Quan Kzer-Za (referred to simply as Ur-Quan until the appearance of the Kohr-Ah in StarCon II) are the main villains of the series.They were originally large brown centipede-like creatures who evolved from solitary hunters on their harsh home planet. While they were still using crude atomic vehicles to explore their system, the Ur-Quan encountered the Taalo. The fiercely territorial Ur-Quan attacked them, but the patient Taalo eventually won the Ur-Quan's friendship—the only race to ever do so. The Taalo convinced the Ur-Quan to join the Sentient Milieu, a cooperative of alien races. Due to their solitary nature, the Ur-Quan were frequently used as scouts and explorers and were active in finding Precursor artifacts.

After many centuries in the Milieu an Ur-Quan scout mission discovered the Dnyarri, who quickly enslaved or destroyed the entire Milieu. The Dnyarri genetically experimented on the Brown Ur-Quan and separated them into two sub-species: the Green Ur-Quan, to be scientists and technicians and the Black Ur-Quan for basic soldiers and laborers. (No further mention is made of Brown Ur-Quan.) After many centuries of mindless enslavement, and at great cost, the Ur-Quan managed to free themselves and defeat the Dnyarri.

The two sub-species of the Ur-Quan developed doctrines to ensure they would not be slaves again. The green Ur-Quan, renamed the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za in honor of the scientist who freed them, devised the "Path of Now and Forever", which states that all non-Ur-Quan sentient life be enslaved to the Ur-Quan as battle thralls, or forever be imprisoned on their planets under impenetrable force-fields. The Black Ur-Quan, renamed the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah after their new leader, felt that only their "Eternal Doctrine", the annihilation of non-Ur-Quan life, would keep them safe from slavery. This led to a war between the Kohr-Ah and the Kzer-Za known as The Doctrinal Conflict, which devastated both sides. The Kzer-Za eventually triumphed through the discovery of an enormous Precursor battle platform named the Sa-Matra or 'Great Trophy'. Defeated, the Kohr-Ah were sent in the opposite direction of the galaxy as the Kzer-Za, with the understanding that when the two species met again, they would fight The Doctrinal Conflict once more, with the victor claiming the Sa-Matra.

Notice any difference here??? 

Seriously Brad get a refund from the writers you paid. And find someone who knows how to write a story. Otherwise none of this is worth a damn. 

If I can ever find a way to do my thing... you are going to be a fan;-)

Replayability 

After finishing the game I have had very little incentive to start over. This is majorly worrying for me so we need some mechanics or randomization at the start of each new game to make things a little different. Maybe even shuffle around some minor races and quests. 

Ships

One thing that bugged me so much that I installed the fleet AI system is that I found the semi-random weapon loadout of enemy ships of the same race to be annoying. I want the weapons to be the same no matter what size ship you're fighting. Just tweak the crew loadout, energy reserve, range or damage of the weapons but keep the setup the same just like SC2

Plz. add mass effect like star system exploration indicator. I.e. when a system has 4 planets/moons/derelicts/stations etc. in total, then a visit to each planet/moon/derelict/station gives 25% exploration. It is easier to keep track of system exploration this way.