Critter Interactions

Ideas on what to do with lifeforms

Copied my discussion verbatim from Discord:

I'd prefer a secondary weapon that is more akin to a tranquilizer, tracker, or scanner

Basically a bag & tag system

You tag the animal, research it, gain credits.

You can't bag & tag the same animal

Or you can choose to kill it and loot its corpse

The FarCry method of dealing with animals

____

To reiterate, you wouldn't take the animal with you, you'd tag it and research it over time.

More scientific

Or you could kill it for a more immediate but less prosperous gain.

 

So you'd land on the planet, see a lifeform, shoot your secondary which tags it, take off, and research it in a separate menu with stats about the animal. You can do entire planets worth of animals or research a specific one, but the same animal over and over will generate decreasing returns so you'll have more incentive to tag new animals.

On the flip-side you can drop down and massacre an entire planet for a more immediate, but an overall less beneficial gain than long-term research.

I don't rightly know what kind of returns you can get from lifeforms, maybe a scientific credit system that lets you research more technology a la Kerbal Space Program.

20,189 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top

This is a very interesting idea for Star Control.  I like the concept a lot, but they should be completely different rewards for tagging for purposes of research and killing and taking the bodies.  Obviously, tagging would give pure knowledge and no resource.  Killing would then have to give resource and no knowledge.  I know it is logical that killing might, not necessarily should, but might also give knowledge, but this is a game and the whole point here is for it to be an either/or thing and not just less for killing and more for tagging and having to wait longer.  This way it is either/or and the effect is immediate either way.

But does SCO even have any form of research that this knowledge could be applied to?  I don't know if it does or not.

Reply #2 Top

Alverez, I don't think that there is research in SCO, that is why I mentioned that.  But I don't know for certain.  I don't think research really fits too well into SC either.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Kavik_Kang, reply 1

This is a very interesting idea for Star Control.  I like the concept a lot, but they should be completely different rewards for tagging for purposes of research and killing and taking the bodies.  Obviously, tagging would give pure knowledge and no resource.  Killing would then have to give resource and no knowledge.  I know it is logical that killing might, not necessarily should, but might also give knowledge, but this is a game and the whole point here is for it to be an either/or thing and not just less for killing and more for tagging and having to wait longer.  This way it is either/or and the effect is immediate either way.

But does SCO even have any form of research that this knowledge could be applied to?  I don't know if it does or not.

I was trying to come up with an alternative to what UQM has. SC:O won't have the Melnorme nor can I see Brad putting in a Melnorme like race just to placate the fans who would want a race with the role of a friendly Shadow Broker.

Along with that I can't see the idea of shooting at a creature until it suddenly snaps into a tiny canister working in a 3D environment.

Killing a creature shouldn't give anything but biological research/credits. Unless you're piloting the Madame du Pompadour from Doctor Who you aren't supplanting the materials on your ship with biological parts.
Makes sense in FarCry Primal, not in a space adventure.

Reply #4 Top

It doesn't have to turn into a can.  You could be shooting a kind of "energy net" that encases them, then you pick them up when you run them over.

I've only seen Fleet Battles and the screen shots they've shown us, so I don't really know how the lander or adventure games layers work.  

Reply #5 Top

Can I just mention here that turning BIO units in at a generic, automated precursor starbase is FAR INFERIOR to turning them in to a mysterious, neutral race of space traders that may-or-may-not be an ancient advanced civilization that narrowly escaped certain death at the hands of the marauding Kohr-Ah's Eternal Doctrine, re-branded themselves, and now instead of having a homeworld, orbit all the SuperGiant stars in this sector of the galaxy... and maybe beyond?

Whew. That was a mouthful. But, it's true. Please do something about that, Frogboy.

Reply #6 Top

I'm not proposing you turn the data over to the Precursor Starbases. I'm proposing an alternative to having to find a supergiant just to get to a black market information hub.

You take the credits you earn from tagging life forms (Or possibly other forms of gathering credits) and research the technology you currently have to upgrade it. Be it lander tech, ship tech, or weapon tech. Alien or otherwise.

You wouldn't be creating new tech with your research, only improving on the things you've collected throughout the sector.

Reply #7 Top

One of the things to remember is the timeline duration for the game and the current state of play on Earth. Star Control is only been recently founded by Earth and it is not necessarily well resourced (material and people) yet. And up until this point Humans had no confirmation that aliens exist, meaning 'xeno research' is not a well founded capability. Timeline wise, if I remember correctly the game timeline only runs over a year or two? That's not much time to become really good at understanding aliens.

Based on my (strawman) argument, I agree that it needs to be another group that provides the bio credits and tech exchange from what is collected. I like the ideas on Discord about another race (Cuore's scavengers!) or crazy AI that has an insatiable need to acquire bio material. It feels more like Star Control and less like XCOM to trade for the tech.

 

Possible AI backstory - millennia ago a dying alien race creates an AI entity that is solely tasked to find xeno-DNA and technology that could be used to cure the disease inflicting their race. They didn't spend much time on the AI so it had no programming in the event of extinction. It uses tech data that it has acquired over time to trade for new material that could help formulate a cure for a species that no longer exists.

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Reply #8 Top

I heart Inferno. Brilliant. ∆

Reply #9 Top

Yes! I love the idea. Space Safari for :erk: or Bag&Tag for 

Reply #10 Top

Damn robots! ;-)

 

Reply #11 Top

meaning 'xeno research' is not a well founded capability.


When has the capability ever stopped Human curiosity?

It seems like I'm going to have to defend my ideas to the death.
You guys keep pushing for a Melnorme allegory when there doesn't need to be one.

Humans aren't underneath a slave shield this time around, they can be utilized more than just as a pit stop.
Which now they won't be because of the Precursor Starbases.
Meaning the only reason to go home now is when you're forced to.

Reply #12 Top

I'm sorry Serosis, but literally no one wants that. This game is about your interaction with aliens. Not how awesome and technologically advanced humans are.

Reply #13 Top

Jesus Christ. That's not what I'm asking for and nobody can fricken' see it.


Big edit because I was on 24 hours no sleep there and couldn't elaborate.

Not how awesome and technologically advanced humans are.

I'm not saying that we focus on the humans at all. I'm saying that anything that has to do with the ship goes through the humans first because they're the ones who built it.
That and humans should at least have the option for researching xenobiology and other scientific things. I'm talking about logic and sci-fi and you guys keep dismissing it saying I want the humans to walk around like they own the place when it's nearly the opposite.
I just want them to play a part in the gameplay beyond module placing and remanufacturing landers.

Earth isn't behind a slave shield anymore, Earth should have some vested interest in what happens.

I'm not completely against hackneyed old sci-fi tropes that have been rehashed to death showing up to replace the role the Melnorme played.
I just don't want the story to completely ignore humanity's inherent curiosity when there isn't anything holding them back. 

The whole AI robot thing is clever, in the same vein as the Brain Spawn from Futurama. But it also gives off Daktaklakpak vibes as well.
Which, to be fair, were pretty entertaining in Kessari Quadrant but were also damned annoying.

To reiterate, let the humans do something besides sit there and be a place to refuel.

Reply #14 Top

Ok, I feel myself forced to step in and delete all posts not relating to the thread topic. No more derailment, stay on topic and keep it civil.

Reply #15 Top

...we could actually make use of the Daktaklakpak, dince thry are technically purely Stardock and it would make sense they are part of the Precursor starbases somehow.  Automated staff, etc.

 

I also like dealing with Earth.  It makes sense they'd want as much information we can give them to give us an edge.  We don't know what the future holds after all.  Or if our allies will remain allies. We need to catch up.

 

It would be nice if we could choose instant gratification with the Daks at Precursor starbases or invest research into Earth.  Maybe grow a sphere of influence...  

Reply #16 Top

Leave SCO a space cowboy adventure. The right place for the research process is in a 4X game; so in other words it belongs in Eternal & Infinite.

Reply #17 Top

Inferno is right on the money. Dude, again, Inferno - you know exactly how to make the Star Control game we're hoping for. Humans spending time to research things is straight outta 4x territory. I agree 100%.

Star Control is about being a space cowboy, adventuring in the wilds.

Like you said, Serosis, we agree on most things, and I respect your opinion and knowledge, but Star Control's place is on the frontier. The wild lands. The half-made world we've never explored before, and the wonderful things we'll find there!

Reply #18 Top

The only place I see any kind of "research" fitting into Star Control is in the enhancement of the mothership and satellite ships it carries.  This went away in the modern era, but in the earlier days of wooden sailing ships, especially during the age of piracy, the crew would often make many modifications to the ships over the course of their journey.  So it could fit into SCO in that way, but it shouldn't be just the same typical Civilization like research that other games use.  I haven't had time to think of this, so I don't have a specific idea right now.  But I would only like the concept of research in SCO if it was handled as a "people far from base jury-rigging improvements while on mission" and not as "scientific research".  It would have to be something unique to Star Control, that has never been seen before, to fit into Star Control.

Like I said, I haven't put any thought into this so don't really have any specific ideas.  But something along these lines might work within SCO.  A unique way of looking at the concept of "research", and the hard part, coming up with a whole new way of representing it that is a fun game within itself, within SCO.  Designed specifically for this game and how this game works.  And, most importantly, at most only vaguely resembles what gamers think of when they say "research".

But just Civilization-like research doesn't really fit into SCO very well.  That tired old system (which has a lot of gameplay negatives associated with it) would detract from the uniqueness of SCO and make it feel like... half the other games out there.

Reply #19 Top

This still leaves the question of how to properly deal with planetary life forms without resorting to tired sci-fi tropes or cloning the Melnorme mechanics.

And dear god I wouldn't want the research to be anything like 4x. I would want something similar to Kessari Quadrant where you plop an artifact into a research base and it spits out ship upgrades.

Reply #20 Top

You can always create any story around how, what, and why any resource in the game is.  Without knowing the story of SCO, it's hard to come up with any good suggestions for that out of the blue.  You'd have to know the overall story to think up a good/interersting story that they might be collecting genetic/organic samples for.

Maybe there is some type of "research program" taking place within the story that they are collecting all of these life forms for.  There should be some reason or motivation for why they are doing that, and then that resource can be related too that storyline.  "Research program" doesn't necessarily mean anything that is happening in game.  It could be as simple as you just getting money for "harvesting" biological lifeforms, but there is a greater story that surrounds why that all exists that makes it interesting.

 

Reply #21 Top

There was a technological singularity and strong AI until those robots and cyborgs left.  Maybe if you found where they went and found a surviving strong AI then you could bring it back to the starbase and the strong AI could do some research as powerful as another technological singularity if you gave it the right data on alien stuff.