@Prof Hari Seldon

I'm not sure if we're on the same page. Kavik Kang and I refer to multi-ship combat, with (for example) 5 enemy ships and 5 friendly ships in combat at the same time. This is distint from the classic fleet battles.

If it were an AI battle that would be different.  But an AI battle between real-time AI ships is a "glorious vision" that isn't going to work out very well in the game.  I guess to those who don't really understand how it should be working it wouldn't be as noticeable, but would probably even be noticeable to the untrained eye.  It would be a big mess of randomness, basically.  But there have been many games in the past that were just a "big mess of AI randomness" that everyone else seemed to think worked just fine, so maybe it's not that big of an issue to the majority of the audience.

For me, personally, doing what can be done well and avoiding what can't be done well (like the plague) is a big part of how I think of making games.  So I would never attempt anything like that, because I know that it won't work well by my personal standards.  I've always thought it was best to avoid things that can't be made to work well.  A great example is the WWII game Hearts of Iron.  It's a big, huge, useless mess.  A lot of that game is great... until the pieces start moving.  Once any moving or fighting begins it becomes, well, a "big mess of AI randomness" that doesn't resemble a war at all in general, let alone specifically WWII.

I don't like games like this, but other people don't seem to notice anything wrong with them.  And even like them.  And there have been many successful games like that.  So I guess what I am getting at is that I wouldn't like that at all, personally, but know that many people don't see the same issues I do with it and can like things like this.  

Sorry I should not have called it fleet battles.  I was talking about multi-ship combat.

Kavik_Kang, then what do you think is going to happen in Eternal and Infinite?  Multi-ship combat is probably going to happen then and it might be AI vs AI like Star Control 1.

I haven't heard anything about Eternal and Infinite other than the name.  This really falls under the heading of "gamers don't miss what they have never had".  I've always thought that the "I" in AI confuses people.  It shouldn't stand for "intelligence", it should stand for "instinct".  Present day AI is not "intelligent", it is "instinctive".  So what I think will happen is that it will be more like a battle of insects that a battle between intelligently controlled ships.  Things like tactics and fleet composition simply won't exist.  And, I am pretty sure that "AI" is less sophisticated than insect behavior, let alone human thought.  So it will be a "big random mess".

But "gamers don't miss what they have never had"... which explains 15 years of success and four versions of Hearts of Iron.  Just philosophically, I would not do what can't be done well.  But "done well" is a relative term (looks at Hearts of Iron again;-).  So, if it's something that the audience will like, and will sell, then there is nothing wrong with it.  It's not just a game that I would have much interest in even though I like games of that subject matter... kind of like Hearts of Iron;-)

That makes sense.  All I heard about Eternal and Infinite is that it will be a strategy game.  Which is why I brought up multi-ship combat AI vs AI.

sco-talk NDA:

Volasaurus - 01/10/2018

Eternal and Infinite was supposed to be a more conquest and strategy oriented expansion for SC:O that would have used elements of SC1 to create a sort of 4X-lite. Afaik you would've controlled multiple fleets, establish colonies and mines, build Starbases. I thought it would've been really cool, and that it was the logical conclusion to the current SC:O story. Oh well.(edited)

cuorebrave - 01/10/2018

Then we can have Star Control: Eternal & Infinite be the 4x Star Control game we all would love to play.

What makes a lot of sense too me from what you just described is that Eternal & Infinite is a modern day re-imagining of Star Control 1.  It would make a lot of sense to make a game like that.  First a game like SC2 with SCO, then a game like SC1 with E&I.

It probably isn't multi-ship combat, it is probably still 1v1.  And, I would imagine, a minimalist strategy wargame to generate battles "with a future".  By "with a future" I mean not just a "pick up battle" or "exhibition match" that doesn't matter, what happens in the fight matters to the future of the game.  If you lose your ship, you'll have one less ship on the strategic map when you are done with that fight.  Games with "no future" can become boring quickly, because the player has no stake in the outcome of the fight.

Then, if you remember, SC1 had ship upgrades.  So I bet that in addition to a minimalist strategy wargame, your "4X light" is also a good description, that there will be a heavy focus on ship upgrades not found in SCO.

From what you said, which is about all I've ever heard about E&I, that sounds like what they are talking about too me... and that sounds like a game I would like to play a lot.  I had played SC1 a lot before SC2 ever game out.  Both my best friend and my brother liked playing head-to-head so all three of us played SC1 a lot, and then I even got into the simple strategy war game part of SC1.  I'd love to play a modern re-imagining of SC1's strategy game.