Ur-Quan Masters

That all makes a lot of sense too me, I don't see any discontinuity problems with it or anything like that.  And it works for me, anyway.

I also don't think SC3 is a very big issue.  Just ignore it, occasionally mention that you ignore it.  It's not like some big uprising of SC3 fanatics is out there to backlash against it.  Those who played it are probably in near unanimous agreement that it should be ignored.  I think acknowledging its existence while officially ignoring it is the perfect thing to do about SC3.

You know...  Just a single "major appearance" of the original SC2 aliens would defuse a lot of what you are concerned about.  You don't want to interfere with where Fred and Paul might want to take their original story, but what about where their original story already is?  You could do a mini-campaign/story DLC set within the time of the UrQuan invasion of SC2.  It doesn't change their story, or interfere with them, it simply focuses on a single "big event" and some associated characters that happened during their original story.  Maybe there was a second ship that was also trying to save the day, but failed, and it is the story of that ship.

Then you have a major DLC release, with your own original story, featuring all of the original aliens... and all without interfering with Fred and Paul's original universe at all.

I think Paul and Fred could ignore it because it's their universe.  But I don't think Stardock could ignore it.  Who are we to say what is and isn't canon in the Ur-Quan universe?  The best we can do is separate them like brawling siblings.

We absolutely may do a DLC that retells already canon events. There's nothing preventing us from putting Ur-Quan Masters into the Origins engine as a DLC either.  

But the principle objective of Origins itself is to establish, well, the Origins.

Can I ask something, frogboy? 

Why? Why are you so hung up on not being able to ignore SC3? If I can state it bluntly... Literally no one gives a shit if you ignore SC3 permanently. Not one person. It's voluntarily erased from our lives and vocabulary every day. Why wouldn't you do the same?

This makes no sense.

One quick example I can come up with is the C&C Universe, where Red Alert was initially designed as a prequel to C&C Tiberian Dawn. But as the success of Red Alert eclipsed even the original C&C, Westwood didn't shy away from splitting the franchise and turning the Red Alert universe into a full spinoff.

Suspension of disbelief is easier to achieve once time travel and parallel universes are involved: Just spice up the lore with some cataclysmic event (Utwig bomb detonation?) rippling through space-time continuum resulting in multiple realities. UQM2 can then be a direct story sequel as Paul and Fred hopefully intended ("that, my children, is an entirely different story").

Wasn't Origins conceived as an answer to the SC3 dilemma?

Origins expands upon the concept of multiple universes and alternate dimensions that were touched upon in SC classics.

These are universes/dimensions we know about:

• SC1/2 - Ur-Quan Conflict
• SC3 - Crux Hegemony
• Origins - Scryve Empire
• Where the Arilou came from
• Where the Orz comes from

Linking all these together is QuasiSpace and the Precursors.

Now Stardock doesn't want to continue the Ur-Quan universe without the involvement of Paul and Fred or their blessing in the case they might not be able to ever continue it.

Now instead of continuing directly the story of SC2 couldn't you make an adventure that would take place somewhere else in the Ur-Quan universe? Say after the Ur-Quan where defeated expedition fleets were sent in the directions that the two Ur-Quan took to reach this area of space. If this on the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za's path there would be battle thralls and slaved shielded worlds, while on the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah's path there would be many dead worlds, but the Ur-Quan are not infallible there might be species that survived and as the doctrines of the Ur-Quan were born from the suffering caused by the Dnyarri so too the Ur-Quan could of caused some alien species to start there own campaigns of genocide or enslaving. Or perhaps something else entirely.

Lastly, concerning Activision-Blizzard, I wouldn't hold my breath for it to accept any deal where it did not completely control the game and IP, so be very weary when dealing with it.

I think you can still largely ignore SC3, you just want to avoid intentionally insulting it.  Most gamers who know it didn't like it, so most gamers understand why it is largely ignored without anything needing to be said.  Anyone who looks it up will read what is said about it and think "oh, that's why Stardock never seems to mention this SC3 game, I get it."

A remake of SC2 in your newer engine would be nice, a lot of people might light that.  But everyone already knows that story.  You seemed to be asking for ideas about how you might use the original SC aliens in SCO.  I think the best way to do that would be to tell your own original story that is set against the backdrop of the events taking place during the Urquan invasion/war of the SC2.  Some side story event that was also taking place at the same time that the human controlled precursor ship was saving the galaxy.  A lot was going on during SC2.  A galactic wide war was taking place while you were saving the day in the mothership.  Minor wars happened, every time one sphere of influence circle absorbed another, that was an entire war between two species taking place.  It can be thought of as an entire epic "WWII in space" history that you have to work with.

You could do a major DLC that tells your own story within the "WWII in space" that was SC2.  You can pick anything that seems like a great single event to expand upon.  I am not an SC lore junie, but I remember there was a big deal between the Yehat and Pkunk that a story could be derived from, or related too.  Or that in another "minor war", when two of the circles combined the Thraddash were created by it.  You could pick any major event from the war of SC2 and make your own new game/DLC out of it.  The story of the war of SC2 is an almost completely untold "timeline".  You can pick any point in that timeline and expand upon the story. 

From your perspective, this allows you to tell any story you want (treating Paul and Fred's original story as the foundational canon that you must stay within) using all of the original SC2 aliens.  It seems to get around all of the issues you were mentioning, allowing you to do something with the original SC2 aliens without affecting Paul and Fred's original story at all.  You would just be adding the detail of a single "major side story" derived from the war that was the backdrop of the original SC2 story.

And just a single major "campaign"/DLC is all SCO needs to fully claim the SC legacy, so to speak, as you had also seem concerned about in your post.

It took me a little while to think of a decent example of what I am talking about.  I often fall back on piracy because it adds dimensions to the situation that aren't otherwise there.  Any "small side story" told within the "WWII in space timeline" of SC2 would need to be about a group of people on a ship with attrition units (fighters, gunboats, etc).  It has to fit in with what the game is.  A common, and very realistic, thing seen in sci-fi is a ship of pirate/mercenaries using a freighter converted into a carrier.

There was the ship that brought Londo Molari "The Eye" in Babylon 5, or the "raiders" of Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century.  These were both freighters converted to operate fighters or guboats to support the mercenary/piracy activities of the crew.  And this, of course, fits perfectly into Star Control.  So it could be about a ship like this that begins in, say, Yehat space.  The Pkunk/Yehat war is the setting this story emerges from, but they leave that space (maybe because of the war) on some type of adventure.

This is what I mean about it being a "minor side story".  Your story makes these people out to be heroes in some way, and they do some great big thing... in their own tiny little world.  No matter how grand you make their story, they remain one group of meaningless people in the grand scheme of things.  Nothing you do with this story has any real impact on Paul and Fred's universe... and you get a major DLC campaign within SCO using the original SC aliens.

Here's an off the wall idea for a story in the Ur-Quan universe. A prequel set before SC1 where you play as the...UR-QUAN. This would probably work best with the Kzer-Za, since the Kohr-Ah would just exterminate everything in their path. It takes place after the first Doctrinal Conflict and the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah went their separate ways.

The Kzer-Za have traveled to a new area in order to imprison alien civilizations under slave shields and you are the lord in charge of the operation. To add a bit of randomness to the story I propose it would be random whether a species chooses to be a Battle Thrall, a Hollow Slave or go out like the Shofixti in a blaze of glory, of course some would lean more towards one option, for example a proud warrior type would have a 60% chance for battle thrall, 30% to fight to the death and 10% for hollow slave.

Of course all the aliens would be new, with possible exception of the Mmrnmhrm, who says only one Mother-Ark was sent to the Milky Way?

The Sa-Matra would also be present, but it would be mostly a last resort type of thing and its use would either depend on story reasons or when conditions have been met.

Another thing if you lose too many Ur-Quan ships the Kzer-Za leader might decide that you should "retire" and someone else should take your place.

You definitely have a firm understanding of where we're coming from.

I've been talking to Paul and Fred a lot lately.  There's nothing I can say publicly yet but like I said, there is hope that a true Ur-Quan sequel is possible in the future made by Paul and Fred.

If that happens, I am hopeful that takes the pressure on us and we can proceed with the Origins concept in which the Ur-Quan universe is one universe of many in the Star Control multiverse.

The whole purpose of Origins is to set the stage that there's always new adventures to go on.  Being tied to a single setting sooner or later puts you into the ME:Andromeda situation.

Broadly speaking, the IDEAL situation for all of us is, of course, if Paul and Fred and retake the Ur-Quan mantle and relieve the pressure on us to do something with those aliens.  That's why we've lobbied so hard for 4 years to get them to do something even if it's independent.

Once Origins ships, we can look at what the best path is to do.

For example, we might want to do a Farscape based adventure or a Battlestar galactic based adventure or a BAbylon 5 based adventure.  Or we might want to sell a story set 20,000 years ago before the Ur-Quan took over their universe.  

A game set during the period of the Sentient Milieu as an origins story for the Ur-Quan? THAT could be awesome.

The other period in the Ur-Quan storyline that could get explored further is SC1. I could imagine a 'black ops' experimental ship that is officially denied by Earth in Star Control but is given free reign to fight the Ur-Quan - mainly done by exploring for precursor artefacts. A nice tie in could be an end game gauntlet run to get a scientific mission to Vega....

THIS!  Great idea.  I've hoped from the beginning that there would be direct references and tie ins to SC2, even if you can't use the aliens or maps for actual game-play.

Frogboy, Like you said, most people playing SC:O will not have been born when SC1 was released. I think you are needlessly concerned with the reaction of the fanbase (how much of it really exists today? SC is a niche retro game now). Like others have said, old time fans will likely willfully suspend disbelief regarding SC3, and newcomers won't care at all.

Honestly, is there a single founder among us who will be disappointed if SC3 is more or less discarded? I haven't seen anyone who was not willing to ignore it completely or at least to the extent that would benefit your plans with SC:O and other universes.

Regarding SC2 aliens, I think the idea to have cameos of them via minor events would be really cool (I'm assuming Fred & Paul are okay with that?). Obviously things that make more sense than others, like the Orz, Arilou, etc.

^ This. 

I don't know where it's written that all related iterations on classic franchises must be included, condoned and supported. My guesstimate is that 11 people would be mortified that their favorite game (SC3) was excluded, and refuse to purchase SCO because of that. Of which, I'm sure we could all scrounge up $440 from our couch cushions to buy those guys' copies.

Just delete SC3, already.

As one of the founders that was old enough to play SC1/2 when they were new...toss SC3 in the trash and pretend it didn't happen.  Nobody will care, no feelings will be hurt (probably not even the people that worked on it). 

Failing that... "Star Control: The Ur-quan Masters 2" done.

Paul and Fred weren't sure when they would be able to announce this but it is finally public.

https://dogarandkazon.squarespace.com/

So hopefully this explains better why we chose not to use the aliens for Star Control: Origins.  

Unlike us, they can legitimately ignore Star Control 3.

I just came all over my screen and desk.

so, where does that put you guys in relation to Fred and Paul's announcement? 

Also, SC3 doesn't exist... 

Look here.

aha

this is what I get for not leaving the Founders area ever.

A thought. Maybe Star Control Origins needs a name change to Star Control Multiverse: Origins. Then Stardock is free to start their own cannon without being forced into following the old course. Same concept you've had all along Brad but that would relay the concept to the player straight out of the gate. Different DLC unlock new Multiverses. Modders can "unlock" star control 1 and 2.

Dude. Stop making me feel so old

or Starflight...