Star Control: Origins: August release schedule update

Greetings!

As some of you guessed, our original release date for Star Control: Origins was November 2017 to coincide with the 25th anniversary of Star Control 2.

Clearly, that's not going to happen and this post will discuss the current schedule on the game.

The Technical Challenges

The first thing to understand is that Star Control is not a normal game.  It is several mini-games in perfect balance with one another.  That means you can't really make it with an existing game engine like Unity or Unreal.  You literally have to build something entirely new just for it.

Because you have a planet exploration game, a battle game, a space exploration game and an RPG all put together, different technical challenges can crop up.

The part of the game that proved really hard was the new planet exploration system.  

It's not just having this part be fun and interest and beautiful (which is hard enough) but that you really do have to hand craft these planets using tools.

The team previously thought that we could procedurally generate these planets (other than a handful of important ones). However, the results were far from satisfying.  If you watched what happened to No Man's Sky you have a pretty good idea of the perils of relying on procedural generation for creating fun planets to explore.

This has meant the creation of MUCH MUCH better tools.  Tools that simply didn't exist, weren't budgeted, weren't scheduled.  Because if we're hand crafting the planets to create our universe, it means you guys, when you create your own universes, are going to have to create your own planets as well (or at least download planets others have made).

And that means the tool doesn't just have to be technically capable of creating worlds but has to be, unto itself, a commercially viable consumer product unto itself ala the Spore creature editor.

The updated schedule

Thus, for the 25th anniversary time frame we expect to have a fully-realized Super Melee game available.  Think Hearthstone but with ships and fleets (your fleet is your deck) with hundreds of different ships to play with single player or multiplayer and yes, we do plan to support multiple people at the same PC playing the game (but not necessarily in time for the beta).  

Now, for marketing reasons, unless we finish before April 2018, we will have to push the game beyond that.  And I have promised you guys that we won't release the final game until there's a general consensus that the overall game is compelling.  And I don't think April 2018 is going to be enough time to get the adventure game out to you and iterate on your feedback and then record all the audio (11 hours or so of audio in several different languages).

The plan remains that you guys will play what is, in effect, a 1.0 game but the general public will never see 1.0.  Instead, what we ultimately release to the public, while marked as a 1.0, will be really more like a 1.2 level release.

This means that we'll be releasing things out to you in phases.

After the Super Melee part goes out., we'll start preparing the adventure game for release with the planet exploration part being super simplified until we're happy with the planet exploration experience.  

The adventure phase will also allow us to focus on reducing the hardware requirements.  It needs to run on a Surface Pro 4 level machine and that is going to take some time.

So the final release is hard to guess.  If I was forced to guess, I'd say September 2018.

I apologize for the delay.  If I had a time machine, we would have nixed the planet exploration aspect.  But it is such a cool and natural progression on what was in Star Control 2. And as many a developer has wrongly believed, procedural generation seemed like a good idea at the time. ;)

 

 

110,796 views 38 replies
Reply #1 Top

Thanks for the information Brad.

Reply #3 Top

Fine. Stardock couldn't pull off proper PG. But, please, at least don't trash talk the ones that COULD. NMS might not have perfect 8 quintillion planets, but 8 quint. is not 5000. And NMS has at least 5000 breathtaking PG landscapes in its universe.

Can we help build those planets for SCO, so it's not 100 stars with 500 planets to explore in 2018?

Reply #4 Top

I'd rather delays than a half-assed game released on time.  I was never onboard with PG anyways so no skin off my back.  It just doesn't work in this sort of game.

Reply #5 Top

I trust Stardock more than the NMS devs. Sculpted planets should be fairly awesome- though, I hope it means we also get spore-like terraforming tools- those would be fun. 

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Reply #6 Top

Quoting Hunam_, reply 3

Fine. Stardock couldn't pull off proper PG. But, please, at least don't trash talk the ones that COULD. NMS might not have perfect 8 quintillion planets, but 8 quint. is not 5000. And NMS has at least 5000 breathtaking PG landscapes in its universe.

That's a ridiculous statement. You're saying that PG works perfectly in NMS because there are (you estimate) 5000 breathtaking planets among the quintillions that were procedurally generated. But that's the very problem - 5000/8,000,000,000 (lets just stop at 8 billion) still only means that less than a thousandth of a percent of the planets were any good, and the others are all crap. If there was a way to automatically suck out the good ones then PG could be said to have worked, but there isn't until people visit them. All it proves is that PG is shit 99.9994% of the time and only works in the tiny space remaining. That's a FAR call from saying NMS worked on a PG level.

You're a fan of NMS, I get it. You've just proclaimed that to the heavens. But don't be ridiculous...

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Reply #7 Top

here's a suggestion for the 25th anniversary that I am unsure of it actually being doable: for the day, on any platform it is sold on (or maybe just GOG), the first two games in the series go FREE for a full 24 hours.  Might generate interest and sales if you mention Origins in with it

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Reply #8 Top

Quoting bleybourne, reply 6


Quoting Hunam_,

Fine. Stardock couldn't pull off proper PG. But, please, at least don't trash talk the ones that COULD. NMS might not have perfect 8 quintillion planets, but 8 quint. is not 5000. And NMS has at least 5000 breathtaking PG landscapes in its universe.



That's a ridiculous statement. You're saying that PG works perfectly in NMS because there are (you estimate) 5000 breathtaking planets among the quintillions that were procedurally generated. But that's the very problem - 5000/8,000,000,000 (lets just stop at 8 billion) still only means that less than a thousandth of a percent of the planets were any good, and the others are all crap. If there was a way to automatically suck out the good ones then PG could be said to have worked, but there isn't until people visit them. All it proves is that PG is shit 99.9994% of the time and only works in the tiny space remaining. That's a FAR call from saying NMS worked on a PG level.

You're a fan of NMS, I get it. You've just proclaimed that to the heavens. But don't be ridiculous...

 

Are you trying to be cute here or what? Nowhere I said NMS PG was perfect. I said they made it work in NMS to the point where sometimes, on some planets it's was amazing. Stardock COULDN'T and therefore forfeited the right to criticize somebody that could.

What, are you expecting SCO to have 90% of mind-blowing planet design? Who are you kidding? You think PG'ed Moon will look worse than handcrafted?.. You think Mars and Venus will look better if handcrafted?.. You might get your expectations in check or you'll fall into one of those NMS hype black holes and it'll swallow you whole.

What's gonna happen is SCO galaxy will be shrunk to ~10% of the projected size (it might not necessarily be a bad thing for some of us). There will be noticeable amount of lazy/quick/filler design. One might even think they were PG'ed... Most of them will be Ok'ish/passable and about a couple of dozen of them will be amazing. Now, tell me, how is it different from PG?........

Reply #9 Top

I dunno dude, I guess I just have more faith in Stardock putting out a good product than you do.

Why are you even a founder if you're just going to shit on the product before you even see it?

Reply #10 Top

It's great to hear that founders will soon get access to a full fledged version of Super Melee. With any luck we might even have enough people to do some kind of friendly tournament hosted on the Discord server. The ship builder is sure to make even something like that more interesting than it would normally be.

However, I confess that it is the adventure mode I am most looking forward to. For me it does not matter if the voice lines and even artwork are not all in yet. I would love to try an early version of the adventure using just text and static images for the dialogue sections. I hope that the development of planetary exploration goes quicker than expected.

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Reply #11 Top

Quoting bleybourne, reply 9

I dunno dude, I guess I just have more faith in Stardock putting out a good product than you do.

Why are you even a founder if you're just going to shit on the product before you even see it?

 

I can ask you the same question, are you here to stroke dev's ego? Like that's gonna help accomplish anything?..

I'm not shitting on anything, just keeping the expectations in check for you. Read MEA post-mortem. They too wanted PG universe, but couldn't make it work for the game, so they ended up with what, less than 10 handcrafted worlds?..

Reply #12 Top

Quoting SchismNavigator, reply 10

It's great to hear that founders will soon get access to a full fledged version of Super Melee. With any luck we might even have enough people to do some kind of friendly tournament hosted on the Discord server. The ship builder is sure to make even something like that more interesting than it would normally be.

However, I confess that it is the adventure mode I am most looking forward to. For me it does not matter if the voice lines and even artwork are not all in yet. I would love to try an early version of the adventure using just text and static images for the dialogue sections. I hope that the development of planetary exploration goes quicker than expected.

 

^^ I am in the same boat as far as what I am looking forward to. While I am ecstatic that the Super Melee will be done correctly my use for it will be to practice with various ships and learn them so I can play the game, not really to compete in any type of multiplayer combat. My navigation/hand-eye skills are mediocre at best and being beat multiple times by younger faster folks is ..meh. 

Now using super melee to build ships, learn how parts and thrusters and weapons work>>> that is what I am going to play and use it for. 

Bring on the RPG, the dialogue, the exploration! 

 

Oh one last thought. I know you want it to run on a surface pro. I am not even sure what that is. I am curious if the game will also utilize higher end desktops? I plan on rebuilding using an I9 (7900x) and scaling up to a 30.5" 1440P monitor. I know Gal Civ III can assign multiple threads to ai, I am not sure if SCO will need that much power but would be happy if it could. 

Thanks for the update. 

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Larsenex, reply 12
Oh one last thought. I know you want it to run on a surface pro. I am not even sure what that is.

Google is your friend.

Reply #14 Top

Oh man I can't wait for Super Melee!! I had no idea it was coming so soon!

I bet you all can't believe it, but I think I actually played Super Melee more than the main game. I mean yeah, I have beat SC2 over 15 times, but Melee with friends is THE BEST.

:congrat: :congrat:  :congrat:  :congrat:  :congrat:  

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Zed-Avatar, reply 14

I bet you all can't believe it, but I think I actually played Super Melee more than the main game.

I'm not sure who you think we all are, but you just described probably 99% of us. :-)

Reply #16 Top
I am that 1% but played and watch the story from SC2 so will have to try out the super melee, i was kind of worried about spoilers hence why i never tried it, but love the game so can't wait to try Origins.
Reply #17 Top

What??? 99% of people played SuperMelee the most? I don't think that's accurate. SuperMelee was very fun, I'll admit, but it doesn't stick out in my mind, or get brought up consistently for being the best game of a bygone era because of its ship combat.

http://kotaku.com/the-game-that-won-our-classic-pc-games-list-if-it-ha-1349952997

People remember it for being an adventure game that has no peers:

"Like, imagine if Douglas Adams wrote a perfect adventure game and mixed it together with open-world exploration, combat, freaky alien diplomacy and resource gathering. What would you get? Star Control II."

"Star Control II is simply a fantastic PC game that offers branching storylines, exploration, freedom of choice, humor, and a whole lot to do with little barrier to entry. The game has been a huge influence on other major gaming franchises, most notably the Mass Effect series. As far as early open world (or universe) games go, Star Control II does it as well, or better, than any other game."

"Star Control 2 will always be a golden highlight for me. It just has everything going for it. Great story (The reason for the Ur-Quan invasion is actually pretty compelling, and backstory) The sense of exploration (go your own way, just make sure you got plenty of gas) Alien variety (Not so many humanoids) Humor, Drama, even Romance (Syreen ho ho ho) A fairly decent combat system to match Great music and rich pixel graphics. You could even upgrade your shuttles, how cool is that? On that note I leave with my favorite alien species ever simply because they seem like comic relief but if you dig deeper you realize they're dangerous on like Lovecraftian levels. (picture of ORZ)"

These are real people, just offering nostalgic comments in a Kotaku poll, but no one mentioned, "Oh I just loved the combat!" Don't get me wrong - I had a blast with SuperMelee. Alone and with friends, but it was a relatively straightforward combat mode that complemented a much more staggeringly creative, imaginative and thrilling adventure game. It wouldn't have worked whatsoever, without awesome combat - and it provided that in spades. But it was hardly the focal point for most people. I PLAYED it endlessly, and non-stop for months. But it's not what I yearn for and have yearned for, for the last 25 years. It was just combat.

Star Control II SuperMelee is fun as hell, but so is combat in Shadow of Mordor, or Diablo II, or Mount & Blade, or Dishonored, or Fallout, or countless other combat-centric game. If Stardock REALLY wants to get it right, though, it's more than just ship-on-ship dogfighting. It's EVERYTHING rolled into one package, somehow aligning the stars to create an experience that surpassed most other games we have played.

So, take your time, Stardock. Lovingly create these planets by hand, until you've got a galaxy filled with sights and sounds and interesting locations to take in, in an awe-inspiring manner. I don't care if it's 2017, 2018 or 2019. This is bigger than that. This is bigger than other games. This is more poignant than just ship combat. This is an experience to last a lifetime, or at least the next 25 years, so when a poll is run on the games of the 20-teens that we remember fondly, SC: Origins can make that list because it crafted an unforgettable experience that rises above the chaff of every other game that comes out these days and is forgotten 6 months later when another shooty-bangbang experience comes out.

Don't apologize. You're creating a masterpiece.

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Reply #18 Top

awesome quotes there Cuorebrave :)

I agree with every word.

yet lets not forget that Super Melee is also a separate game mode that is part of Star Control, so it needs to get its own separate polish as it's basically 2 games in one. The smaller game, and the bigger game... Super Melee is what got me into the original Star Control, as i was too young for the strategy then... and of-course Star Control 2's main game is what had it ascend to greatness.

So I'm happy that we're going to play Super Melee soon :)

Even happier that the main game is going to get all the love it requires.

p.s
don't care about PG or not... as long as the outcome is good XD

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Reply #19 Top

Quoting cuorebrave, reply 17

I PLAYED it endlessly, and non-stop for months. But it's not what I yearn for and have yearned for, for the last 25 years. It was just combat.

Right, so I'll bet that overall you played it more than the adventure part of the main game, which you probably played all the way through 4 or 5 times and thus spent maybe 20-30 hours on. You would have spent a lot more than that playing SM "endlessly non-stop for months". That was the point I was making. I wasn't saying SM was better than the adventure game, I was responding to someone who said he was unusual at having played SM more and I was pointing out that most of us would have.

Reply #20 Top

Bleybourne: I also disagree with your assertion that people mostly played SM. I know that I did not. Honestly, unless you have friends to play with in local PVP SC2's SM isn't that engaging. Just because a game is fun with friends does not mean that the game itself is fun. SC2 lives on in memory because of its adventure.

Also, just because you spent a lot of time playing a certain game or game mode does not mean that time was as high quality as playing a different game or game mode. Some of the most beloved games of the past and present have short but sweet experiences. Take the Portal games for instance. No one is raving about Portal 2's co-op or map builder, but everyone memes about cakes and potatoes.

Cuorebrave: I would not hype the game up too much. Yes they should take their time but we should not expect an instant classic or a direct continuation of Star Control 2, especially since it is explicitly set in a different universe. There is also such a heavy focus on user generated content that the real strength of SC:O might not be anything the devs make, but what the users make. Time will tell.

Reply #21 Top

I think only if the combat ends up being good fun and challenging without the adventure mode and the adventure mode is enjoyable without the combat elements, the sum might be a really good and complete game experience.

Reply #22 Top

SM does not contain all combat elements though. Planetary combat and modular flagship combat mechanics will be Adventure-only. So development of SM can only go so far whilst Adventure will combine just about all elements.

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Reply #23 Top

Yeah I know. Obviously all individual components of the game should be as good as possible, combat and other.

SM is just very important beyond that in my opinion, since it is the first part the public is going to see and maybe the first thing a lot of people are going to try. And as I already mentioned on Skype in February or so when Brad has been talking about release, your rarely get a second chance to make a great first impression. So I think SM should be really polished before release because this impression might stick.

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Reply #24 Top

Quoting SchismNavigator, reply 20

"I would not hype the game up too much." 

Right, but that's what YOU would do... and that's fine. But, I vehemently disagree. What a sad day to be aiming for mediocrity.

I say, Stardock, aim for the stars. Never, ever stop until you've made an instant classic.

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Reply #25 Top

cuore and Schism, I agree with you both.

This must be the 100th time I'm mentioning this, but I recently replayed SCII and spent up to 1% of my playtime in SM. Probably ~50-80% of the gameplay is resource-gathering and exploration, and the rest goes to dialog.

I agree that SM should be made right, however when I play SCII and something bumps into me in HyperSpace I never go "Hell yeah, combat!". It's just not that engaging. Probably the most exciting thing about SC for me is venturing into the unknown, meeting races for the first time and learning more about them and the universe.

I am REALLY excited for planet exploration. Although it was weak in SCII (alright for its time...), the promise of SCO's planet exploration is one of the things I'm most excited for. At the end of the day, the alien interactions are still going to be about selecting options from a dialog tree, but it looks like planet exploration is a massive improvement on the original.