Origins vs. Eternal & Infinite

So as some of you may recall, Star Control 1 was actually a bit of a strategy game while Star Control 2 was the action adventure game.

We had played around with the idea of merging both concepts into the initial release of Star Control: Origins but decided it would be too messy to try to explain what Star Control was in one fell swoop.

So instead, Eternal & Infinite will be released as a future expansion.

In EnI you get a sector (100 light years by 100 light years).  There's typically around 500 stars in a sector (really!).

Anyway, rather than controlling one ship, you run Star Control itself and explore, expand, fight wars, negotiate treaties, improve your tech, etc.

The current plan is that Eternal & Infinite will be released approximately a year after the release of Origins.

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Reply #1 Top

Nice!

How will E&I fit storywise to Origins?

Reply #2 Top

So E&I is a strategy play-mode? I, personally, didn't care for strategy aspects of any SC.

All I care for is ADVENTURE, EXPLORATION, LORE, INTERACTION, CHOICES, ROLE-PLAYING.

Reply #4 Top

I'm with Hunam_ on this one

I'm not. Having an SC1 style manage/build/dominate strategy option AS WELL AS an SC2 style adventure game is fucking awesome and I can't wait!

Reply #7 Top

Personally I had hoped for an extension of the gameplay (and story), not a replacement. I'm not sure how people will react to an expansion that takes the gameplay in a completely different direction.

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Reply #8 Top

Never played SC1. I guess I can't judge, but get your 4x out of my adventure game....

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Reply #11 Top

I really like strategy games a lot and judging from Ashes, Sins and GalCiv you obviously know how to make a good one. But are you sure it is a good idea to make a decision about mixing these two games genres thus early, before it is somewhat clearer how well SC:O works out?

Star Control is already a complex project with lots of different sub-components to be fully fleshed out. I would have assumed you wanted to expand on this adventure base first with features and/or content, or maybe even adding some sort of co-op multiplayer.

Building a 4x-style game on top, then making all parts work and fun, seems to me as quite a task.

Reply #12 Top

Our view is with the consensus here.  Eternal and Infinite would be a later OPTIONAL module.

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Reply #13 Top

Good to hear, as long as it doesn't affect the development of the basegame negatively, I'm surely looking forward to it.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Vijar, reply 13

Good to hear, as long as it doesn't affect the development of the basegame negatively, I'm surely looking forward to it.

It might not affect the base game negatively, but it still means they will be working on adding a module of a different genre rather than expanding the content of the base game itself - just in terms of time and resources. Not saying it will definitely suck or that it's not possible for me to find such thing enjoyable, but it sounds like it's going to really be a different game.

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Reply #15 Top

Quoting DarkGildon, reply 14

but it sounds like it's going to really be a different game.

Nope, it's going to be Star Control. You were just expecting to only get Star Control 2, but you get both in your Origins. Bonus!

Reply #16 Top

Quoting bleybourne, reply 15

Nope, it's going to be Star Control. You were just expecting to only get Star Control 2, but you get both in your Origins. Bonus!

:rolleyes:

Reply #17 Top

^ Some just don't get it. Oh, well...

Reply #18 Top

Quoting Hunam_, reply 17

^ Some just don't get it. Oh, well...

No, I get it. I just don't get why you're salty.

You're already getting a "Star Control 2" adventure game. It's one that lets absolutely anyone make new content for, and as we all know, there are going to be a bunch of people making very cool stuff for it.

Now you're being told you can ALSO get a "Star Control 1" strategy(lite) game mode AS WELL and you're upset because you would rather Stardock instead make a bit more content for the adventure game part that you already have.

That's more content which literally anyone could be making, as opposed to a new gameplay mode which only Stardock could be making.

I know which one makes more sense to me.

So actually, yeah, I DON'T get it. You're bitter because you're being given new cool stuff instead of just some extra iteration of stuff you already are getting which frankly you're going to be drowned in by the community anyway. Your position doesn't make a lot of sense, brother.

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Reply #19 Top

I'm psyched for it.  I loved the strategy game part of SC1!

Reply #20 Top

It was the part of SC that added the depth to original melee.

Reply #21 Top

My previous post was a bit more direct than I had meant. I feel a SC1 strategy mode would be great and I probably would play and enjoy it. I'm just much more excited for adventure mode.

I have to agree with bleybourne that, since it'll be easy for the community to make new adventures, making E&I would be a better use of resources. Opens the whole SC:O platform up to suit more players.

Reply #22 Top

For those not familiar, original strategy mode from SC1 had campaign editor. Thus, you could make your own scenarios.

Reply #23 Top

Quoting bleybourne, reply 18

You're bitter because you're being given new cool stuff instead of just some extra iteration of stuff you already are getting which frankly you're going to be drowned in by the community anyway. Your position doesn't make a lot of sense, brother.

I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but I want to make my issue with this revelation clear.

Basically, this is a deviation from what the majority of SC fans like about SC, myself included. This is not about being given "new cool stuff", it's about receiving entirely different stuff.

Now, I understand a lot of the crowd here are Stardock fans which is to be expected, and I'm sure there's at least some correlation between the first and SC's fans. It's not surprising to find considerable support here for a deep strategy layer in SC's universe.

The point is, though, that many SC fans may find that disappointing. Think about Stardock taking E&I in a different direction than the one you're accustomed to; say, a first person shooter, or a survival game, or even a card game. So E&I is now about giving you "new cool stuff" - shooting up aliens in the face with guns as crewmen descending from a lander; gathering crafting resources from planets that are used to build beds and armory on your ship; or collecting mysterious cards left by space cows that can be used to play with friendly races.

You might not care about any of this "new cool stuff" and be disappointed that E&I isn't about expanding the core gameplay of SC:O - which is meant to expand on the gameplay of SC2 itself.

So this is why some of us are disappointed - we don't necessarily care for the rest of Stardock's arsenal (I personally haven't played any of their games, although I'm sure some of them are great), and we are uncomfortable with the "appropriation" that's being done here to Star Control.

Now, this isn't to say I won't find E&I as currently planned to be enjoyable. To draw a (perhaps exaggerated) parallel - I'm sure there are people who liked The Bureau: XCOM Declassified. But was that really what XCOM fans were hoping to get their hands on?

Lastly, I frankly don't trust the community to make worthwhile campaigns. Sure, maybe there will be some interesting skins or mods, but those things nearly always fall short next to an actual campaign that is company-funded, where multiple people are being paid to put precious time into. So unless you mean half-assed content, I'm really not sure what stuff you expect me to be drowned in. Even games with a huge following like Half-Life have just a couple of notable community-made campaigns that are really worth your time (and those took a decade to complete, give or take).

Considering all of the above, I hope that you can see why some of us are "salty" after learning what Stardock plans to do with the game. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but for now let me be suspicious and worried (or bitter and salty, if that's your choice of words).

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Reply #24 Top

^ Wow, I really wanted to post exactly the same points, but decided against in the last minute, 'cause I couldn't see my computer screen through all that salt pouring outta my eyes.

I'll just mention that if I wanted to play SC2 4x, I'd buy GalCiv3 and install this mod:

https://forums.galciv3.com/470323

which still seems to be in Beta?... Now, when's that fabled modding community gonna be done with it?... It's been 2.5 years already...

And before embracing and praising Stardock for trying to add a new game mode to SCO (which may be the best thing ever happened to Star Control franchise or a total waste of time and money), I'd like to ask:

"Brad, do you want to elaborate on E&I idea? Have you conducted a community probe on what we (SCO founders) actually want or do you just wanna slap GalCiv3 tech on SCO and call it an expansion to sell SCO to GalCiv3 folks seeing that they're not too keen on joining SCO founder's program as is?"

I don't remember when I saw GalCiv3 founder badge last time here on SCO forum either.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Hunam_, reply 24

And before embracing and praising Stardock for trying to add a new game mode to SCO (which may be the best thing ever happened to Star Control franchise or a total waste of time and money), I'd like to ask:

...

Actually, the question I'd really like to ask is different (and not nearly as hostile :P).

Are we so pleased with how the core SC:O has realized its ambitious vision to its satisfactory fulfillment that we're ready to see the dev team busy at work on a separate module, or are we more interested in making sure the core adventure game reaches its full potential?

The fact is that SC:O is year(s) away from release, we have no clue how solid the end result is going to be, and we're already hearing about a module that adds in a new genre (that we may not care for). So I'm sorry for not joining the cheering crowd just yet...