Current State of Super Melee

(AKA "Oh, that's not SUPPOSED to deal damage?")

from StarControl Forums

So after sitting down and playing Super Melee in the current build, I've had time to mull over the current available roster. There's definitely something fun lurking somewhere in the void between the parts we've been given, but it's not quite there yet, and that's okay. It takes iteration to get anything worthwhile crafted.

I also took the liberty of tweaking some of the ship XMLs, and here are my thoughts so far:

  • Dan'nath - Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with this ship. Very fun to play, readable enough to be fun to play against, and it's just so thematically delicious. Verdict: Almost Gold. Only thing missing is a series of visual tweaks that I'm sure are already being dealt with (ie the telegraph rings around the singularity).
  • Tywom - The main gun is incredibly powerful, and the shots are easy to read, but the range balances it. My primary issue with this ship is its turn rate and the strength of its turrets. I feel like the rate of fire on the turrets should be reduced by at least 20%. Verdict: Beta ready.
  • Drenkend -
    • Just to make sure I know how this ship is SUPPOSED to function:
      • The idea is that this ship slows the enemy with its primary gun and launches clone marines into the enemy ship, which deal massive damage and die.
    • The primary problem with this is that the crew does not regenerate, and your primary weapon deals no damage. This leads to finite damage, which can leave you a sitting duck. Now I know what the counterpoint is "The Dreadnaught and Nemesis functioned very similarly, but had no regenerating crew." Yes, but they also had other means of dealing damage. My solutions would either be to cause the primary to deal a little damage (either direct or a DoT to coincide with the slow debuff), or keep both weapons as-is and let the Drenkend regenerate crew very slowly (a rate of maybe 1 every 5 seconds?) Verdict: Broken.
  • Pinthi - I like this ship quite a bit, thematically. It's organic, it uses corrosives as a weapon. Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. The abilities feel right, as well. Definitely piques my interest as a swarmophile. I'm perfectly okay with the slow thrusting speed, but the turn rate and rate of fire of the primary weapon need work. My proposition would be to increase the Pinthi's turn rate and increasing the primary weapon's rate of fire to the point that it's basically spewing corrosives like a firehose of acid. The spawned Pinthi spore also moves way too slowly to be effective, in my opinion. Other than that, feels good. Verdict: Beta Ready.
  • Earthling -
    • I suppose this was going to come up sooner or later. There's already an mild grumble on Discord about the state of this ship, and I agree to most of these points:
      • The ship does not match the description of the human race more or less being the bottom of the galactic food chain - We should be wielding the equivalent of spears and rocks, not radiation cannons.
      • The primary weapon deals entirely too much damage and tracks way too well at too long of a distance.
      • The Point Defense Laser has too short of a cooldown.
    • So what would I do to fix this ship? Honestly, I wouldn't touch the PDL. I think it's fine. The ideal fix would be to nerf how well the nuke tracks its target, and reduce its damage by roughly 40%. I might even reduce the duration of the nuke to 2.1 seconds. Verdict: Beta Ready
  • The Measured - I'm so glad that absolute movement is back for this ship. Almost makes up for the missing Arilou Skiff. My primary problems with this ship are...mostly aesthetic, to be honest. It makes no sense to me that a race as sophisticated as the Measured are flying around...basically headbutting ships to death. I feel like they'd be more likely to use at least mass drivers or plasma of some sort. Keep the charging damage if you want as a secondary weapon, but ramming isn't right. Verdict: Back to Pre-Production
  • Trandals - I don't necessarily dislike this ship. The Secondary feels wonderful, especially against the Scryve Battlecruiser. The primary weapon feels weak, and I don't know if I'm just not using it right or if it's not functioning as intended. I feel like the primary should extend indefinitely until 1 of 2 criteria are met: The player releases the fire key (collapsing the beam at the end of the bolas) OR the beam between the bolas meets a target (collapsing the beam onto the target). Otherwise the rest of the stats are fine. Verdict: Back to Pre-Production
  • Scryve - I love this ship. This is the big, bad, overcompensating deathship that the game needs. Thematically solid. I love that the beam prevents you from turning because of how "ZOMG FAHRIN' MAH LAZOOOOOORZ" it is. This ship's primary weapon is THE reason we need to not start the battle flying at each other at full speed. Open the battle mashing your primary fire and bam: dead meat inside a floating sardine can. I feel like the flak should at least attempt to prioritize space near your opponent if the opponent is within range (if it's not already doing this). Verdict: Almost Gold
  • Mowlings - SHIPS FOR THE SHIP GOD (BULLETS FOR THE BULLET THRONE). This ship is great. So great in fact, that its secondary is the only thing I use with it. I literally spend the entire battle running away from the enemy and mashing alt. We might want to look into making Jeff something that isn't controlled: instead giving a secondary weapon that does something interesting and increases the chance of Jeff spawning every time it successfully hits. Gives it more of a Pkunk "Hallelujah!" moment feeling. Verdict: Almost Beta Ready
  • Menkmank - This ship feels really good. As with the Dan'nath, I wouldn't change much about it. Has a nice Merc-like feel. The canister mines are something that gives the player options for creating void zones, which leads to more interesting gameplay, in my opinion. My only gripe is that the ally is...really dumb. And slow. Tutor the ally, please? Verdict: Almost Gold

Let me know if I missed any ships that are currently available in the current build.

25,250 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from StarControl Forums Top

Does Menkmank ally even work in latest build. A was not able to summing it in latest build?

Also, never seen the effect of Mesured secondary. And from gameplay perspective, the ship is fine, even without secondary. I would rather have it switched to different race then removing headbutting. Headbutting is fun. Definitively more fun then SC2 Skiff.

Scryve: Way too vulnerable against quick enemies. Unlike, for example, Earthling Cruiser. The flack cannons need tracking, so they can hit nearby ships, instead of being random.

 

 

The problem with Trandal is that range of their weapon is only good when being chased, since weapon does not keep velocity of the ship. When chasing, it is really small, due to weapon lagging behind ship in speed. Also, damage is puny, reeeeeeally puny. Like 1 crew point puny.

Reply #2 from StarControl Forums Top

The original Measured ship was much more fun to play. I rated it as better than any of the original SC ships in terms of piloting pleasure. It had what the Trandals have now - the bola. That weapon worked well with the Measured because you could do a 180, fire, then do another 180 and continue flying forward. It also had a warp beacon which let it get out of trouble (and was critical in beating AI controlled Measured ships).

Make the Measured Great Again!

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Reply #3 from StarControl Forums Top

Hmm... maybe Trandals should adapt current Mesured ship as their own? You know, headbutting. :D

Reply #4 from StarControl Forums Top

The weapon velocity issue does not affect just Trandals, it affects Menkmack, Phinty and some other ships at some level.

Makes targeting with Phinty really difficult, not to mention that it affects AI targeting badly.

And Menkmack ship pretty is much a pushover (especially, since secondary is broken). If you are chasing enemies you can not target them at all. Canisters just hit you back (thankfully no damage). Now, just compare that to SC2 Khor-Ah. Completely different experience.

 

Reply #5 from StarControl Forums Top

Drenkend:

Why not have their crew function like Orz crew? Staying alive in enemy ship and doing havoc, and getting back if ships is destroyed (or even getting back earlier, after some timeout).

Also, is it just me of their flying crew is invulnerable. I was never able to destroy it, even with dozen hits with Earthling Cruiser laser. I think only thing that kills them is them staying too long in the space and just disappearing. Needs better AI (like retreat to ship, after time).

Reply #6 from StarControl Forums Top

Could the Mowlings secondary be a 'holy' laser painting gun? The longer you keep the enemy painted for, the higher the chance that Jeff rocks up. Forces the need to engage the enemy.

You could then have some fun sayings like "The power of Jeff compels you!".

Reply #7 from StarControl Forums Top

Here's my opinion!

Trandal: While I agree that the Trandal ship is underpowered, I have the most fun playing it. It feels like the ship I have most control of. Its gameplay is more fast paced and adaptable. And unlike most other ships, both primary and secondary abilities are used almost equally throughout engagement.

Scryve: For the same reason, I dislike Scryve. The weapon feels powerful, sure, but in real gameplay taking a missed shot would probably mean certain death. You surrender control of your ship for a significant amount of time. I also feel like the secondary ability is supposed to punish ships that get close to the Scryve, but that should actually be the purpose of its primary ability. I think I would prefer a secondary ability that complements the primary one - something that helps the Scryve have their target in range (e.g. Mukay pull). I also think the turn rate needs to be higher, when the ship cannot turn and move at all if it wants to be aggressive.

Drenkend: Not much to add. I agree with Vol completely. I think a possible (fun!) fix would be to have the crew regenerate when they reach enemy ships (maybe they harvest the crew and use the essence to teleport back to their ship? :P). This way you wouldn't be spamming the ability, hitting and running while your own crew generates, but you'd actually have to be confident your crew would successfully board the enemy, otherwise they're just gonna hang there and you've lost crew.

Earthling: Homing nukes are boring. That's my opinion, regardless of whether the ship is balanced. I always prefer abilities that require more engagement and skill. Maybe reducing the tracking efficiency would make the ship nicer.

Mowlings: I don't like the current state of this ship. I agree that the secondary needs to do something. Also there's currently zero feedback about this ability if you're also moving around. The ship feels too fragile right now too reliant on Jeff, IMO.

Pinthi: Agree with Vol. Secondary feels useless.

Measured: Why does the smallest ship ram other ships? The design is weird considering the race, also weird considering its combat abilities. Secondary doesn't appear to work at all. And generally the gameplay is wonky and unsatisfying for me.

Tywom: I agree that this ship is fun to play. I think it's my second best (Trandal being first). Needs to be balanced though.

Dan'Nath: I like this ship's abilities, but the secondary has so little feedback it's hard to tell exactly how it works (what is its range? Does it travel like a ripple or is an immediate radius affected?).

Menkmank: Another ship with a passive secondary ability. Less engaging, less control, less predictable, less fun.

Reply #8 from StarControl Forums Top
  • Dan'nath - This is my favorite ship to fly. I rule with it. It FEELS like Star Control. The way it flies, and tilts while it does so is very dynamic feeling. The black hole is friggin cool-looking, and is also very creative - like something only an alien would come up with! Good theme, too - Dan'Nath, masters of gravity, both pulling and pushing. That being said, I'd like to see their conversation screen COMPLETELY MESH with this theme. That needs to happen. Things need to be floating, and upside-down, and he should be standing on the wall. Honestly. Right now he's just standing there, in a typical spaceship room, abiding by the laws of gravity. Instead, there should be a black hole behind him, and he's like, "Yeah, so what?" B)  Do something with this. Tie it in. Make it cohesive, and we have a winner. 
  • Tywom - Issues with Tywom alien design aside, this ship absolutely murders all comers. The gun feels right, and flashy, the little drones you realease at just the right time? WOW. He's a killer. A straight-up murderer. Umm... that doesn't at all go with their personality, though. That's a problem, I think. Again, find a way to tie in the alien with the ship, and it'll be golden. 
  • Drenkend- -- I don't know how boarding parties are going to work as a main weapon. I just don't see it as feasible in the heat of battle, but as of right now, I can't even really get it to work, so the jury is still out on this one.
  • Pinthi - Needs a good sound effect like the lull form the Mycon ship's spore cloud. It haunts my dreams. I can hear it perfectly. Just don't make it a fart noise. I don't know, I kill this ship every time, with most of the other ones. Something's off about it, but I don't know exactly what. Also, bugs out quite a bit, most games - even after I destroy the Pinthi ship - a copy of him sticks around and follows me for every subsequent battle. Also, IIRC, the small contagion poof shouldn't be an exact replica of the ship... it should be a spore, right? 
  • Earthling - OP. Enough has been said about this missile, but I AM terrified when the AI picks their cruiser. Maybe you should be able to shoot the missile down? Can you do that already?
  • The Measured - I second the absolute control scheme applause - it's a good diversion, providing some spice when you get to control this ship. Very cool. It's super not-finished, though. Like, it blinks around the screen and isn't ready for prime-time yet.
  • Trandals - Needs a LOT of work. The bola doesn't work like it should, and does very little damage. I think the ribbon bola's two sides should spread out further and further as it travels across the map, decreasing the damage, but increasing the effected area as it goes. That'd make it more fun. Also, the ship design is boring.
  • Scryve - The Big Bad, with a Big Bad ship, and a Big Bad Laser. Cool stuff. No conceptual changes needed.
  • Mowlings - I don't get it. I couldn't make Jeff appear ever. What's the mechanism for that? But I sure did slice shit up with that laser! It's like the Arilou. Hitbox detection should be a lot tighter though, because right now you don't even have to shoot the laser near other ships, and it still registers a hit.
  • Menkmack - Looks too similar to the Tywom ship, in design (not color). Like the weapons though, fun stuff. No other comments.

Also, I want to say, it wouldn't be a Star Control game if you didn't have multiple people mis-spell the names of the alien races, I love it! In this thread alone, we have Phinty and Menkmank, but those are far from the only misspellings we get on a regular basis on Discord. You're doing your job, Stardock! Now, we just need an equivalent of the Mrrmnhrm... the Mrrhnmhrm... the Mmermenherm?! Those robots, damn it! Hunam nailed it months ago - we need some 3+ syllable names, please!!!

Reply #9 from StarControl Forums Top

Here are my thoughts on some of the ships:

Trandals: I really don't like this ship. It's a weird shape and the pseudo-3d makes it bloody hard to tell which way I'm even facing, especially the way the angle keeps moving as I rotate the ship. Also, the bola's weapon does almost no damage, and I fail to see the point of the super speedy secondary attack. I think this ship needs a lot of work.

Tywom: I like this shop, but the main weapon is too affected by momentum. It's impossible to hit something you're chasing, and the ship isn't fast enough to catch up with anything. I love the orbiters and the droppable floating turrets though, very cool.

Drenkend: Orz was one of my favourite ships in SC2, so this was always going to be a winner for me. I love it. Having said that, I think the main weapon needs to do some damage or (as others have said) you're screwed when you run out of crew. Also, the crew take too long to home in on the opposing ship, often orbiting it 3 or 4 times before moving in. Finally, they each kill the exact same number of enemy crew before dying, which is boring. Like with the Orz, there should be the possibility that they do awfully, and on the flipside, sometimes with the Orz one guy would just keep on killing and killing and would take out the whole enemy ship, which was exciting. Making that randomised makes it more fun. Also, you should be able to retrieve crew or they should fly back to you after a while if they don't die. But I do love the ship.

Mowlings: I love the laser, I love the ship, but Jeff is a dud. When he bothers to appear, he just floats there and doesn't really seem to do anything much unless the enemy is dumb enough to fly right into him. Needs work.

Pinthi: I don't even? I mean, a cloud comes out. But it doesn't seem to damage the other ship much, and after a while it stops coming out and just a little ball does, which flies right through the other ship doing nothing. The secondary makes a duplicate ship that flies towards the opponent and does literally nothing? What?

Trickster: I enjoy this ship, it's fun, the gravity weapon is fun. The secondary doesn't seem to do anything though?

Scryve: Love the ship, love the fricking big laser. But what are the little bally expanding globes for the secondary attack? I don;t get what they are meant to do?

Menkmack: Eh. Yet ANOTHER ship that summons a reinforcement? At least this one actually fights, although it also persists for subsequent fights, but I'm guessing that's a bug. The game keeps trying to keep all 3 ships on screen though and the view keeps flipping, it should focus only on my actual ship and the opponents actual ship, IMO.

General comments: Obviously a long way to go, but I am seeing a lot of promise and the bones of awesomeness. Apologies if this post seems overly negative, I just want to help make this game the best it can be. The planet seems to have no gravity (yet?) I assume that just hasn't been done yet. I would like to see asteroids too. Also, I would really like ton have the option of fixing the camera pointing straight down, the almost-90-degree view is a bit weird for me, and I find it a bit offputting.

Those are my 2c. Loving the potential, this game is going to rock.