Underwater Exploration

I've been vocal at every opportunity to bring this idea up in other threads. Mentioned the concept several months back to expand on the idea of new exploration concepts. Recently brought it up again in the latest "planet exploration" thread.

I would absolutely love to see the lander upgradable into a vehicle that can dive down into oceans not just of water, but also oceans of liquid gas on frozen worlds or maybe even lakes of metallic elements that are liquid at standard temperatures (e.g. mercury, gallium or bromine). Perhaps after we obtain enough lander upgrades we can submerge the lander in these hazardous oceans or maybe even lava flows within the mantle of extremely hot cataclysmic worlds.

It would be excellent to have not just subterranean or submersible exploration, but also atmospheric exploration on worlds such as gas giants where there is no surface to land on. Would open up a whole new realm of exploratory possibilities. Perhaps items hidden away in hard to reach environments like these could carry a gameplay achievement or added bonus as well. Many games have achievements for discovering hidden secrets or easter eggs these days.

Nothing about types of exploration was mentioned. But there's this:

I wouldn't hold my breath for underwater exploration, BUT SCO is the biggest SD project to date, so there's a tiny glimmer of hope.

I even suggested earlier where if you're on the dark side of the planet - the liquid is frozen and you can't dive. So you literally have to wait in orbit when the star light hits the ice to melt it and then you can land and submarine the shizz out of the liquid body floor. I'm calling it liquid 'cause it could be anything else beside water - liquid nitrogen (where you'd need a low temp insulation upgrade), acid/base (requires anti-corrosion upgrade), swamp mass (requires engine power upgrade) etc.

I think we're getting a little out of hand here. Successfully creating a convincing entire underwater world on top of everything else may be a little out of scope... it appears the lander will hover over water, because, hey we can't have everything, right? 

Something akin would be exploring the interiors of your ship, or even teleporting aboard the alien ships to meet them in person and walk their halls! Sure, that'd be awesome, but let's not get carried away here. Stardock needs focus. 

I don't know, I don't think that's actually that much a stretch when you consider it just has to be slightly more geometry under the liquid surface. A few hundred extrusion into the planet's crust to make an ocean or a sea

NMS underwater ship exploration was modded in day 3 after release. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

From my perspective its more important to consider whether underwater exploration actually represents a useful gameplay choice. Aka what is the point of underwater exploration? Is there an actual useful gameplay exploration mechanic that makes that useful/necessary. If it is then how does that impact how you upgrade your ship? Would this necessitate you 'back tracking' to planets to find stuff? Is such back tracking useful or just annoying?

^ Does a crashed ship with salvageable tech or quest artifact on the bottom of the ocean qualify for a "useful gameplay"? The one you can't reach without certain upgrade? Or progress your quest without? The one you can't scan to locate without a certain Magellan upgrade?

Unfortunately, we don't know what planet exploration mini-games SD has in mind, so usefulness of underwater exploration is a moot point.

But then you're essentially again creating a thing where you create an entirely different tech, thta has literally a single purpose on a quest? I don't really have an issue if you gate entire planets away because of 'heat' or 'gas giants' or whatever. Because at least when you get 'magical macguffin tech a" you can go " oh yeah I can finally go to planet X now I hope there's some cool stuff!" where you're creating excitement for the exploration.

But to create a sub-per-planet gating system because you dont' have an upgrade is just annoying imho. You can create a problem where exploration is discouraged because of the constant back tracking when you get 'magical macguffin tech A', then oh 'magical maguffin tech B' makes you go back AGAIN, and so on and so on. You're not exploring something new, you're just re-hasing a place you've already been to.

Exploration isnt special. Its work. And each upgrade creates more work and more back tracking to a place you've already been to.

Ah, I think you're failing to see the value in this. Replay value, new game+ without having to start over, avenues for more story. There's lots of reasons to add that.

I'm just outlining the potential pitfalls. If something is fun hell I'll take it. But it really depends on how exploration as a whole works from a mechanics standpoint. It could be fun, but it may not be relevant or necessary depending on the design decisions made.

Everyone needs to keep in mind the set budget of this game. Would you REALLY rather them focus on fleshing out an entire underwater world, rather than say... including that 12th alien race? Or nailing the ship upgrades and making sure they're not too common and certainly not Fusion Blaster 1/2/3/4 that increases dmg from 3.5 to 4.1 to 4.9 to 5.7? Or polishing the graphics to give them that extra WOW factor?

Start thinking about divvying up resources before suggesting underwater exploration. 

Yes, and the budget for this game is huge, larger than anything SD has done to date, iirc. And SD has made MUCH more in depth content with smaller budgets, so...

But there IS a set budget. Right? You're agreeing with that part...

^ 5 Mil.

In my opinion,it's not a stretch in the least to have underwater exploration. I think that technology needs to be gained in order to do so. Strictly from a maneuvering standpoint. Some water world race finally reaches space, you do them some favors, they give you tech for a reward. This makes it goal oriented. It would make water worlds fun to explorer and some wicked good plot lines can be added further on down the line. Honestly besides making the lander a little more sluggish from a modeling standpoint it's not any different from surface objects. Given what we have seen with the current surface details I hardly think this is undoable or unreasonable to accomplish. Keeping the cartoonish feel to the game, you need to get crazy with visuals or the physics involved with water.

yeah...

some giant sea leviathans sounds good

My input on this is neutral. I don't feel strongly for or against it.

Perhaps if the devs are interested in the idea, but do not see if fitting into their current development plans - then it could be implemented as part of a future expansion.

Satoru did a great job of explaining how designers evaluate gameplay ideas for games and hit the decision on this 100% on the head.

Are we doing underwater exploration? No. 

Are water covered planets special and offer some interesting gameplay? Yes

Thanks for finally acknowledging this, Vaelzad. Even though there won't be underwater exploration, the fact there will still be different lander gameplay dynamics is very reassuring.

What are the chances of being able to explore gas worlds without a solid surface to land on?

^ Gas worlds will be unexplorable, 'cause the convoluted set of gameplay design rules interlaced with semi-relevant logic decisions said no. 

I kid, I kid.

I vote for James Bond-like ramps for "boat jumping"!

Jet boats only on the ramps, of course:-)