Duh....

I was talking to someone earlier today and they reminded me of something I had completely forgotten about.  I've talked about SFB here a lot.  And those "nefarious activities"...  Well, without making this a long post, back when Babylon 5 came out, and we were still somewhat of a dominant force in the world of games, we managed to, let's say... "arrange"... to sort of "take" Babylon 5 because, of course, we had already done Star Trek and doing Babylon 5 now would be really fun, right!  Of course it would.  So we made a Babylon 5 game kind-of "on the side, as a hobby".  And in that Babylon 5 game people made lots of other things, like Battlestar Galactica... and Star Control!!!

Here is a link to the SFB Staff's take on this ships of Star Control through the eyes of "our little hobby" Babylon 5 Wars, after having taken the original player idea and "finishing it right", in our view.  I can't believe I had forgotten about this for all this time, you guy's will love this:-)

www.tesarta.com/b5wars/other/starcontrol.zip

 

Hmm... this is one of those links that won't link, I bet one of you techies would know why.  Go to the link below, pick the "Other Universes" tab on the far right, then Star Control is on that alphabetic list.

http://b5warsvault.wikidot.com/

 

EDIT: You might be interested to know that what you are seeing in the text document, with those lengthy and detailed explanations and justifications for the ship designs.  Those were not written for the document, or as a presentation to gamers, although as you can see they did use them that way in the end... edited down a little bit.  What all of that actually is, was the presentation the players were required to present to AoG, for AoG to pass to the SFB Staff, to then "finish" their ship designs for them based on their own explanations of what they were trying to achieve with their own designs.  So the ships you see associated with those descriptions are the versions we sent back too them, through Admiral Graw.

JMS was a big SFB fan, and hung around the SFB Staff on GEnie before he made B5, when he was a writer for Murder She Wrote.  His famous "B5 Bible" is actually just the Star Fleet Universe timeline, and many of us had seen his B5 timeline many years before it became a TV show.  This is how we wound up with Babylon 5, JMS personally gave it too us... and actually did quite a bit of "Ghost Writing" for the game.  Many of the core story elements found in B5 Wars were actually ghost written by JMS.  The alternate Mars histories, for example, are all actually JMS himself.  When I was actually on the Staff, which was back during the GEnie/JMS days and the years during B5, my nickname was not "Kavik Kang".  Kang is still unpublished character I created for SFB that I took as my handle pretty much the day I retired from the staff.  Official staff nicknames are given to you by SVC, and as the Romulan representative on the Joint Chiefs of Fleets SVC had given me the nickname "Marcus" because my real name is Marc (my staff code name was "Self-Destruct", which is a whole different story).

We have never bothered to ask JMS for confirmation of this, but back then I had long black hair... and looked a lot like "Marcus" on B5.  Do you remember Marcus's last name...  That's right, it's "Cole".  Most SFB insiders believe that the Marcus Cole character is inspired by JMS's time among us on GEnie, and is a combination of my Staff nickname and Steve Cole's last name.  But we've never had this confirmed.

:jafo:

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Reply #1 Top

And since it's now after midnight.  It's the anniversary of the day the Japanese officially surrendered on the decks of the Battleship Missouri... and my birthday!!!

So happy birthday to me... Marc, Marcus, Self-Destruct, Marcus Cole, Kavik Kang... whatever you want to call me, I'm 48!

:beer:

 

EDIT: I thought I should point out that this wasn't any big conspiracy, although there was an aspect of secrecy too it that inspired that "Agents of Gaming" and "Agent One" names for the company and Bruce Graw.  But this was really, mostly anyway in this case, just how things were done back then.  At least by us.  Agents of Gaming is a real game company, and Graw & Glass owned it and were the designers of B5 Wars.  They even had their own "staff", those three guys in the text file were part of Bruce's informal staff.  At the same time, though, it all came about and came to be through the SFB Staff, that Bruce was a part of, and as a result was heavily ghost designed by the SFB staff (that was the whole point) and largely (at least the core material) ghost written by JMS which, again, was the whole point of the "minor shenanigans" that actually were involved here, hahaha.  This isn't any big secret, most regular SFB players put this all together very easily.  It didn't need to be kept from them, the people it did need to be kept from would never notice:-)

In the end nobody did anything wrong... it was in the best interests of the people it was kept from.  JMS had a choice... a team of 20 experts with 20 years of experience applying a 20 year playtested system in 1-2 years.  Or, some random group of 2-4 people starting from scratch making his game in 1-2 years.  There were those would would not consider giving the license to "the dominant Star Trek guys" for obvious reasons no matter what they were told.  JMS knew these games, and new better.  It was in their own best interests but they never would have seen that.

Reply #2 Top

Actually, since I'm on the subject and I'm sure there are a lot of B5 fans here that won't mind the off-topic discussion...

B5 Wars is the reason that there was never a Babylon 5 computer game.  I've heard lots of people wonder about that before, and it was because of B5 Wars.  The idea had been that once we created a game truly worthy of the Babylon 5 Universe that computer game makers would then base their comparative "mini-games" on our work.  Computer games are too small, tiny really, and could not match the epic scale of the Babylon 5 story.  So the whole point was that what we were doing would serve as the foundation of a future gaming universe empire like SFB had once been and was just barely beginning to die off at this point.  But that part of the plan went really badly.  After we had released the core of B5 Wars a computer game company was given a license.  I can't remember who it was... but their plan was... silly.  We explained the situation, and there was concern that a really crappy B5 computer game was going to be made... but we re-assured them that they had nothing to worry about.  The game they were describing COULD NOT be made.  What they were describing could never be made to function, so everyone could stop worrying because that game would never be released.

We were right, that game was never heard from again.  Those people didn't have the first clue about how "space combat" functions and were trying to do something that was literally impossible.  Which is really just a good example of why it was given to us in the first place.  So we are the reason that there was never a computer game, and the one attempt made at a computer game was more of a demonstration of why only we could do it right anyway.

And then, to end the story from my perspective, anyway... what that company had said they were going to do was make a game that would be like you were sitting in the captain's chair and the game would play out exactly like what you see in a fight on Star Trek.  And the player would essentially connect phrases through voice commands or menu selections that would assemble sentences like "Full Power!!!  Port Side Oblique Attack and hold for the Option Point"... and it would be just like you were watching the bridge of the Enterprise during a fight on the show.  Basically the impossible dream game of every trekkie.  It couldn't possibly work... the way they said trying to do it, anyway.  But ***I*** could make it work.  It was a great idea for me... and resulted in what to this day, and will forever be, is my crowning achievement as a game designer.  Game #6 of the Pirate Dawn Universe, the end of the beginning of the story... Mission.

I can put you into that Captain's Chair exactly how they had wanted too, through a very sophisticated "magic trick" of simulation design and a fully comprehensive understanding of how the combat functions.  It's all an illusion, none of it is actually happening... which is how it can be made to happen:-)

So for me the B5 Wars story ends in the inspiration for my "off the scale better than all the rest of my games" best game, Mission.

EDIT: What the heck, it'll never be made anyway... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlUhIXZnFYw

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Reply #3 Top

After having mentioned B5 Wars I looked into what wound up happening with it since last I knew around 2005 or so... and what ultimately happened with it is actually really interesting too me.  But the relevant part here is that there is actually a more current, and HIGHLY simplified version of B5 Wars that has since been published.  It's called "A Call To Arms" and is made by Mongoose Publications.  Mongoose Publications is the "retirement hobby" of Steve Jackson, formerly Steve Jackson Games, a legendary board game designer who stands up right along side Steve Cole and Gary Gygax (D&D) in our industry.  Steve Jackson is probably most famous for Ogre (very good, and inspired many other games) and Car Wars.  Mongoose Publications does a LOT of Star Fleet Universe/Old TFG related stuff these days, which makes a lot of sense.  Both Steve Cole and Steve Jackson are from and have always operated out of Texas.  They are VERY close friends who have been speaking with each other 2 or 3 times per week for the last 40 years.  I didn't know about any of this until this last week, but they have become kind of a team in their retirement years and what is left of their companies have become joined at the hip without actually being connected at all and Steve Jackson seems to do mostly TFG/SFU stuff these days while just supporting his own games which were always simple and small, since that was his thing that he was so great at.

So there is SFB (Uber Complex and Massive), Federation Commander (SFB Lite), Babylon 5 Wars ("Everything works in the opposite way of SFB on purpose"), and Steve Jackson's Call to Arms (Brain Dead Simple, based on Babylon 5 Wars)... if anyone is looking for an SFB inspired space game.  Or, of course, just about every computer game ever made that has anything to do with spaceships, but these table top ones are the original source material:-)

 

Reply #5 Top

Well, I figured at least some SC fans would have at least taken a look at SFB or B5 Wars by now, so I figured i'd point out the differences of all the different versions of SFB that are out there.  

Reply #6 Top

Just throwing it out here.

I have no clue what SFB is. I've never touched anything SFB related in my life. I've not even lived in US until 2000. A lot of founders here aren't from US and they have not a slightest idea what SFB is. The rest are too young to know it. All I did was wiki'ed SFB and that's about it. Not really into researching the whole shebang about it. So yeah...

I watched Babylon 5 and BattleStar Galactica for the first time like couple of years ago too. Liked it.

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Reply #7 Top

buttons on this forum suck too.

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