Need guidance for Basic Modding

Hi, Im new for modding the sins, I check the top pages and did find the tutorial I was looking for mostly are for models and background of the game(well, I might missed the post I was looking for, this forum is quit hard to read for me)

But I only need some simple thing the origin game simply needs, if anyone could give some hint to me how to do it or point out the right link I would be really thankful

 

1. I want to change the lvl cap for all capital ships and titans, I hope this would be just text mod, lvl 10 is just not good enough for me, add more skill levels would be great too

 

2. I want add skills to cap ship with all titan standard passive upgrades(to make them more customized) and give some titans the blink skill(forgot the name for that skill, the one VL titan got, I love that one)

 

3. remove the mines before I figured out how should I buff it or at least make AI stop using it, the only thing the mines can do is to just kill my laptop and they just love to put that thing on every single planet like a weed farm

 

4. Is there any place I can find some models that I can use? I just want to try to create a titan of my own.

 

5. Is there a way to move up the upgrade limits for starbase? only 8 upgrades made some unique skills never got chance to use, oh is it possible to make the stats of starbase buff with each level it upgrades?(i.e. for each upgrade it receive +500 hulls and shield?) TBH everyone do the defence upgrade for the starbase at least twice(even in the no so "hot-action zone") make it a bit must have for a should be "custmized" unit

 

6. Is it possible to make the cap ship or titan of other race have the VL empire tech effects?(like those each cap ship work as 1 lab and can generates gold) but don't collide with the VL tech so them still got the upper hand(maybe need buff a little their numbers though)

 

7. I want to make a mode that can strength the Tactical part of the game, which can let u just focus on the planet you are fighting, make each planet counts, I hate to face roll 20+ planets or 2 more stars to win when I know the opponent will never got chance to fight back, its just kind of feel wasting time..... 

 

8. I want to buff the pirates a bit at least make them stand a bit longer, I vs the hardest AI most time and the pirates died way to quick feels like they never need to be in the game....

 

9. I hope I can buff the AI in the late game i.e.: if their titan or cap ship died it can keep its lvl or got the same lvl of the human player, this make the late game fight more intense than just defend choke point for half hour then just steam roll them

 

  again, if anyone could point out the guide for me, I will be really thankful, :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

20,830 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

I want to change the lvl cap for all capital ships and titans, I hope this would be just text mod, lvl 10 is just not good enough for me, add more skill levels would be great too

Not possible, 10 is the highest you can get, and no mod is capable of changing it. Someone probably would have done it otherwise. :p

All you can really do is change how much XP it takes for caps/titans to advance through the ten levels.


2. I want add skills to cap ship with all titan standard passive upgrades(to make them more customized)

Not possible, capitalships can only use 5 ability slots, they can't have the stat passives like titans get. Unless you want to remove one of their regular ability slots for an ability that just buffs stats.


and give some titans the blink skill(forgot the name for that skill, the one VL titan got, I love that one)

You'd have to remove one of the other abilities from a titan, but sure, that's easy. Have you gotten to the point of opening entity files yet? That definitely is in the basic guides.


3. remove the mines before I figured out how should I buff it or at least make AI stop using it, the only thing the mines can do is to just kill my laptop and they just love to put that thing on every single planet like a weed farm

Remove mines/mine layers/mine research from the player.entity files.


Is there a way to move up the upgrade limits for starbase? only 8 upgrades made some unique skills never got chance to use, oh is it possible to make the stats of starbase buff with each level it upgrades?(i.e. for each upgrade it receive +500 hulls and shield?) TBH everyone do the defence upgrade for the starbase at least twice(even in the no so "hot-action zone") make it a bit must have for a should be "custmized" unit

Sure. Look at the entity files for starbases and starbase upgrades.


Is it possible to make the cap ship or titan of other race have the VL empire tech effects?(like those each cap ship work as 1 lab and can generates gold) but don't collide with the VL tech so them still got the upper hand(maybe need buff a little their numbers though)

Sure, if you mod some research files or add new research with those effects for the other races. 


I want to buff the pirates a bit at least make them stand a bit longer, I vs the hardest AI most time and the pirates died way to quick feels like they never need to be in the game....

gameplay.constant files to change the pirate raids, galaxyscenariodef.galaxyscenariodef file to change what spawns at the pirate base.


I hope I can buff the AI in the late game i.e.: if their titan or cap ship died it can keep its lvl or got the same lvl of the human player, this make the late game fight more intense than just defend choke point for half hour then just steam roll them

That is possible, but it is a bit more... complicated than everything else on this list.

As it is, the AI can purchase more capitalship levels than players can on this list, so if the AI is doing well economically it usually can have decent capitalship levels even if you're blowing them up regularly.

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Reply #2 Top

    First of all. Thank you sir, GoaFan77, thank you very much for your reply. \o/ \o/ \o/ It is really helpful and gave me much more info than the last time I checked the forum X|

 

1.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

Not possible, 10 is the highest you can get, and no mod is capable of changing it. Someone probably would have done it otherwise. :P

All you can really do is change how much XP it takes for caps/titans to advance through the ten levels.



 That is very unfortunate, Don't know why they do that I was hoping to change some figures like the in warcraft III editor(so far the only thing I know how to mod other than TXT files)
 May I double the exp needed for each ship and just give them 2 skill points each lvl? I can just change 1 file for it or I have to do all the cap ship and titan files? that is about 27 files we are talking about here........ -_-

 

 

2.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

Not possible, capitalships can only use 5 ability slots, they can't have the stat passives like titans get. Unless you want to remove one of their regular ability slots for an ability that just buffs stats.

 

 Only 5 skills for capital ships? wow, now its really looks like a Warcraft III now(each hero can only have 5 hero skills without create triggers)

 thats funny, can I combine skills then?(like put them in a spell book) i.e. I can combine the defence passive(of which I don't think anyone will not max it for their titans) with the weapon passive(which I don't think many titan really use it) so that I can free 1 slot?

 Or can I make a skill acts like manage icon(the one you use to set the Engagement area and fleet thing) so when I click it it opens up another page and can choose/use skills from there?(basically a spell book)

 

 

3.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

You'd have to remove one of the other abilities from a titan, but sure, that's easy. Have you gotten to the point of opening entity files yet? That definitely is in the basic guides.



  I do see the entity files but I don't know if the tutorial did tell me all entity can be modded or any of them I should leave it untouched. and mentioned a converter for the entity files but I can't find the download since the most entity files can't be read by notepad >:( >:( >:(

 

  Why they don't make the entity files as txt at the first place? does it speeds up the game or something? Whats the point to make them entity files if we gonna make them txt anyway?  :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed: :annoyed:  


  I have to admit that I was shocked the first time I opened the files....... I mean there are really just too much files, I know its a good way to keep the Mod running if only one file is broken (which should be a must have idea for all mod friendly games) but lack of a basic search engine or guide even just put them in sorted group folders, make modding the game really hard for green horns like me, Im not even sure where to start!

 

 

 

4.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

Remove mines/mine layers/mine research from the player.entity files.


   Thanks I will do that, does this effect any saved game though? I got few unfinished games.

 

 

5.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

Sure. Look at the entity files for starbases and starbase upgrades.

  Thank you, I will check it next time I got the computer (I don't always have the game computer with me)



6.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

Sure, if you mod some research files or add new research with those effects for the other races. 

   thanks, does those file the same location with stares or they got other folder? and for adding researches where should I put the icons ,they do need one right? I don't want my research end up a question mark in the game....that would be silly    :annoyed:

 

 


7.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

gameplay.constant files to change the pirate raids, galaxyscenariodef.galaxyscenariodef file to change what spawns at the pirate base.



    thank, oh btw  doest mod disable achievements? I got 5 of them left

 


8.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

That is possible, but it is a bit more... complicated than everything else on this list.

As it is, the AI can purchase more capitalship levels than players can on this list, so if the AI is doing well economically it usually can have decent capitalship levels even if you're blowing them up regularly.

  which file indicate the lvl cap for AI can buy? what about titans? I would love to see a high lvl titans when they come out at late game (but not early though, that will be annoying)

  as so far with 300+ game hours I can tell the AI never doing Economy right, their income is so low that even a 6 years old can do better (AI usually get 30+ when mine got 100+ in 1v1 map) And I always play against Vicious AI

  I guess AI they got invisible buff from their home world(income didn't show at the score screens), once they lost their home world they are notably crippled(ships builds much less at slower and stop doing research)

  Worse part is if you switch sides in a load game even a vicious AI acts like just like MIA, they stops doing anything notable, I feel Im just hitting a dummy, and that does not feel rewarding

 

  hence, I need find way to buff AIs in the late game so that they actually can bring up a good fight, otherwise I wouldn't feel my first 2 hours in the game was worth my time.

 

  that is why I think the 100+ planet map are nothing but a  time drill the AI don't really do any thing after they lost their capital, such waste of the game potential

 

 

Reply #3 Top

For boosting the AI, you can give them AI only research by hiding the subjects off screen.  There are examples of this in various mods, I have a set of balance files in SOA2 for purposes of mitigating the varying complexity in utilizing sides, which the AI isn't capable of understanding, as well as locks on alternate mechanisms for using abilities the AI can't utilize.

 

The main problem the AI has economy wise is that the game was originally designed without upkeep, and they never really made it work with the system.  Your vicious AI gets crippled because the AI doesn't build enough economy before teching up the fleet upgrades and nuking it.  With how large a percentage their home world is thanks to a lack of sufficient trade port spam in a proper chain for maximum profit, losing it is a huge blow.

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Reply #4 Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 3

For boosting the AI, you can give them AI only research by hiding the subjects off screen.  There are examples of this in various mods, I have a set of balance files in SOA2 for purposes of mitigating the varying complexity in utilizing sides, which the AI isn't capable of understanding, as well as locks on alternate mechanisms for using abilities the AI can't utilize.

 

 wow, that was smart, I was thinking build AI a trigger that give them +15 income at every 30 mins in game time at cap 150 or so.

your work for those files must be massive...... Im looking for download now and gonna check it when I got one, I hope you don't mind if Im poking around with it, XD

 

Quoting psychoak, reply 3

The main problem the AI has economy wise is that the game was originally designed without upkeep, and they never really made it work with the system.  Your vicious AI gets crippled because the AI doesn't build enough economy before teching up the fleet upgrades and nuking it.  With how large a percentage their home world is thanks to a lack of sufficient trade port spam in a proper chain for maximum profit, losing it is a huge blow.

  well, I always thought AI never need pay for upkeep(like most game Hardcore AIs) by the way they spam their fleets now I think the stardock just couldn't pay a guy that was knowing how to build a proper AI at the first place

     AI is a huge part of this game, because the PVP took away a huge part of the game potential(lot mechanics you don't have time to use in PVP), I cant believe they would even try to mess up AIs

     

not to mention, that was a bit different than my experience :

       In the first month, I spent 2 hours to build a super empire then save/load to let a vicious AI take control and I take the cornered and losing side try to enjoy a survival game, then surprisingly (or I should say strangely) the vicious super empire(+1000 income with less than 2 fleet upgrades) did nothing..... I waited half hour for a fight!!!

 in the end,I have to switch back to check what's going on, then find out that it didn't even bother to research the fleet size!!!!

 

a switched AI can't even do research that was really just dum, I would like see who designed the AIs for this game from the start, I was curious if they even bother to pay an intern for writing AI scripts(thats just cheap)

if what you saying is true, then why this happened, its not just me though I got few friends had the similar exp

Reply #5 Top

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

May I double the exp needed for each ship and just give them 2 skill points each lvl? I can just change 1 file for it or I have to do all the cap ship and titan files? that is about 27 files we are talking about here

You can't have them give 2 skill points per level. Capitalships always get 1 and titans two. All you can do is double the XP and double the stat bonuses ship get on level up as well as double the effect of the abilities (make them twice as powerful, or however you want to scale it).

Basically you can't change how the fundamental level up system works, just the precise benefits the system gives on a capitalship/titan basis. 1 file to change the XP, lots to buff all the needed ships.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

 thats funny, can I combine skills then?(like put them in a spell book) i.e. I can combine the defence passive(of which I don't think anyone will not max it for their titans) with the weapon passive(which I don't think many titan really use it) so that I can free 1 slot?

Sure, but for capitalships that still uses up an ability slot for the passive. In fact for passives you can cram as many effects as you want basically.

I should also mention the 5th ability slot is highly limited on capitalships, since the skill selection button is in the 5th slot so it can only be used for passives or abilities you only want to be autocast for some reason. Players cannot manually use the 5th ability on caps/titans/starbases.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

 Or can I make a skill acts like manage icon(the one you use to set the Engagement area and fleet thing) so when I click it it opens up another page and can choose/use skills from there?(basically a spell book)

Nope. Again lots of mods would love to do that if it were possible. You might want to play some to get an idea of just what they change (and what they don't). 

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

  I do see the entity files but I don't know if the tutorial did tell me all entity can be modded or any of them I should leave it untouched. and mentioned a converter for the entity files but I can't find the download since the most entity files can't be read by notepad

You can mod them all if you wanted, or even make your own entity files for say new ships.

The basic converter is technically always kept up to date in your Rebellion installation folder.

We had better guides but the websites they were on no longer exist (and the search feature on these forums isn't very good). There's probably better ones but this is the official tutorial from the devs (you can get it in a more readable pdf if you download the tutorials in the forge tools from the download section of this site, but everything but the pdfs are way obsolete). It's old but mostly still true for entity files. 

Here's all the vanilla files already converted for rebellion. 1.82 (AKA the reference data) if you don't like command line tools. Harpo also has a GUI tool you can try, but I don't use it myself.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

Why they don't make the entity files as txt at the first place? does it speeds up the game or something? Whats the point to make them entity files if we gonna make them txt anyway? 

Yes, and reduces the game's file size (AKA downloads faster). The game can run them in binary or txt format though, so you never have to convert them back if you don't want them. 99% of people don't even try to mod the game themselves, so why not make things a bit faster for them?

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

I mean there are really just too much files, I know its a good way to keep the Mod running if only one file is broken (which should be a must have idea for all mod friendly games) but lack of a basic search engine or guide even just put them in sorted group folders, make modding the game really hard for green horns like me, Im not even sure where to start!

Hey, my mod Star Wars Interregnum and its core, the Enhanced 4X mod, have more entity files than the base game, and the vanilla files are loaded too!  ;)  Every type of entity file has a prefix though (Capitalship, Frigate, Planet etc.) that tells you what they are. While they all have a .entity extension, each type of entity has its own fixed format (so you can just say copy planet population numbers from a planet and put them on a starbase to get starbases to generate credits). Once you learn the naming convention, its not hard to find what you're looking for.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

 Thanks I will do that, does this effect any saved game though? I got few unfinished games.
 

Changing game files mid save game is generally a bad idea. If you change numbers like a ships' health, that usually works. Other changes might not work until a new game, or in extreme cases they might break the save game.

You are creating a mod in your mod folder to mess around with right? NEVER CHANGE THE BASE GAME FILES. Make everything as an official mod, so you can just disable the mod from the options to go back to vanilla and play your save games/multiplayer without issues.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

thanks, does those file the same location with stares or they got other folder? and for adding researches where should I put the icons ,they do need one right? I don't want my research end up a question mark in the game....that would be silly

GameInfo basically has all the files used for actual game numbers. Textures contains all the image files. Brushes files in the Window folder tell the game where in the texture file an icon is. Sins can use .dds or .tga images. Paint.net is a good free image editor that can save both natively if you don't know much about image editting.

I would just focus on getting the research in game first before worry about art assets. :p You can just copy an existing research and it will use that research's icon until you change it. Oh and any text you want in game goes in the String file in the String folder.

Finally, if you add any totally new entity files, like research, make sure you add your new research entity file to the entity.manifest file, otherwise the game won't load it.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

    thank, oh btw  doest mod disable achievements? I got 5 of them left

No, but obviously if your mod say disables the Advent, you can't get any advent achievements while playing it.

Quoting XZephyrAquans, reply 2

which file indicate the lvl cap for AI can buy? what about titans? I would love to see a high lvl titans when they come out at late game (but not early though, that will be annoying)

Titans by default keep their levels on death, so if the AI ever gets a high level titan, they'll keep it everytime they rebuild it.

Sadly we can't directly edit the AI benefits (psychoak mentions the hack we use to make our own AI only benefits). But its fairly substantial on unfair and harder AI. They can easily get 6+ level capitalships if they have the credits.

 

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Reply #6 Top

Leaving them in text actually slows down load times as well, mesh files are a pretty big time sink.  This results in several seconds of graphical issues even after the game has started, as particles continue loading while the game runs.  It's a very small fraction when they're in binary.

 

Changing game files mid save game is generally a bad idea. If you change numbers like a ships' health, that usually works. Other changes might not work until a new game, or in extreme cases they might break the save game.


As a general rule you can change anything you want, but not add or subtract.  You can actually make these alterations on the fly using the included dev version of the game.  You'll find the executable in the install folder.  Adding and subtracting means changing reference lists, which are set and don't agree with being altered, this pretty much guarantees a crash either during play or on startup.


wow, that was smart, I was thinking build AI a trigger that give them +15 income at every 30 mins in game time at cap 150 or so.

your work for those files must be massive...... Im looking for download now and gonna check it when I got one, I hope you don't mind if Im poking around with it,

 

If you're still looking for it: http://www.moddb.com/mods/sacrifice-of-angels-2

 

The AI only research files are individual files, hiding them is just a matter of using an invalid position to put them off the display area.  I have like six of them or something across the five factions.  It's minuscule work compared to the ~1700 files comprising the abilities.

 

The AI only functions are a bit more complicated, I needed to get around the autocast system to make a functional cloak for the player and the AI both, the buff chains for Klingon and Romulan AI cloaking are a bit more extensive, probably nuttier than anything others have been dumb enough to try.  Although they're nothing next to X1, but X1 is insane and I was 52 cards short of a full deck when I decided to write it.  Now if you can figure that one out, congrats, the few I've heard back on took a look and thought better of their time.

 

If you can figure out how to use it, go for it.  I've never understood wanting control over something I've already given away for free, anyone that wants to use my work can rip it out whole without crediting and I probably won't even notice, let alone care. :)

 

well, I always thought AI never need pay for upkeep(like most game Hardcore AIs) by the way they spam their fleets now I think the stardock just couldn't pay a guy that was knowing how to build a proper AI at the first place


The AI is actually fairly good at the base game.  The expansions, Rebellion in particular, added features it's not particularly equipped to handle, and there are some glitches, like when you switch players, but the original release was fairly competent even by today's standards, and this is a rather old game at this point.  It most definitely pays the upkeep, when a small game is going right you can actually see the decline in production as the idiots belt out another level and cut their income down.  This is why the hordes of units will swamp you early on, but then peter off to a trickle late game.  They don't expand their income at a rate anywhere close to their fleet upgrades on a smaller map, even the huge ones are constricting.

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