Star Control "Karma"

from StarControl Forums

Although this is my first post, I have read many throughout this forum but have not seen anyone comment on a "Karma" system for the Star Control reboot.  Before I get into this, let me give you a little background on my SC experience...

I first played SC II in my youth shortly after buying my cousin's 3DO for $200 (so he could purchase a Sega CD system) and instantly fell in love.  It is the first game I've ever played that utilized truly ambiguous adventure.  The galaxy was my *PLAYGROUND*.  A few years later...much to my dismay...I came home after baseball practice and saw that my mom had sold my 3DO and all my games (30+ games, only 1 that mattered) in a garage sale.  Tears wept from my soul.  To this day, I don't think I've fully recovered from that trauma.  Luckily, a few years later came along Ebay, and so did my chance to once again sit at the helm of my precious Vindicator.  My "new" FZ-10 3DO sits between my Xbox One and PS3, and will remain there indefinitely because every now and then the Ur-Quan need to be taught a lesson.

Now to the point of this post...

Several hugely popular and successful adventure games (think Mass Effect, Fable, etc.) utilized a Karma system that greatly impacted the feel of the game during each playthrough.  Whether you wanted to play as the "good", "bad", or "neutral" guy profoundly affected the decisions you would make throughout the game, from beginning to end.  Depending on which "guy" you were trying to be, special dialogue options, mission events, appearances, and even gear were made available to you.

Whether you realize it or not, SC II used a Karma system fairly well, albeit not explicitly and ever so subtly.  If you chose to be a rogue for most of the game and destroyed every ship you encountered, you would have lots of RUs at your disposal at the cost of not being able to use many of those ships for your own fleet.  If you chose to walk the path of the "righteous man" and tried to befriend all of the races, you would have access to many more ships and intriguing backstory at the cost of having to spend more time gathering resources. 

While we're considering Karma, we have to include interactions with the Druuge in the discussion.  Sure, you can sell them 100 of your crew for the Rosy Sphere.  Quick and easy right?  Not so fast...now each new crew member costs more RUs and the Starbase Commander doesn't think too highly of you.  Your other option - trek through Mycon space searching for egg case fragments, using up fuel and probably losing some crew to Mycon attacks and lander visits.  But your reputation is safe.

SC II is a fantastic game, an all-time favorite, but does have one shortcoming that I have been contemplating for a while...

Why couldn't I choose to walk the "Path of Now and Forever" or employ the "Eternal Doctrine"?  Despite all my "good" or "bad" choices, the end-game was always the same - destroy the Sa-Matra and in turn defeat the Ur-Quan.  Maybe I wanted the Sa-Matra for myself and subjugate all other species, or go find my own little slice of galaxy heaven and live the rest of my life peacefully (with the Sa-Matra as my own personal home defense system).

What I would like to see, and truly hope for, in this SC reboot are choices and decisions that really do affect gameplay - current and future interactions with alien races, available starship equipment, access to specific parts of the galaxy, end-game conditions, and conditions and the start of subsequent SC titles.  Sometimes I feel like a rebel, sometimes I don't.  I want to be able to choose.

Replies to this post are welcomed.  I want to know what all of you think.

27,061 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from StarControl Forums Top

In fairness, that shortcoming was mostly due to budgetary, technological, and production time limitations when the game was produced, but it's a fair point to make for the new title. SC2 did attempt to have outcomes for your decisions but they were of course basic ones. With the evolution of gameplay in the years since, it would be nice to have a more developed form of karma affecting your actions to a greater extent in the new game.

I'm not sure they'll allow such a degree of freedom that we can take on any ideology we want no matter how radical or sinister the methods (that's probably more of an MMO/RPG element that you'd see in a title like Star Citizen) but I'd like to see Stardock take the kind of cause-and-effect relationship seen with the Druuge example and apply it to many more situations to enhance replayability.

Reply #2 from StarControl Forums Top

I for one dislike different endings, for instance Mass Effect for me would have been way better with either a good or an evil ending based on your karma instead of nothing you did really mattering and choosing whatever ending you wanted to go for.

I would rather have a focus on one story, with one ending, and some subtle different ways to go through it like SC2 had.

I think whenever multiple endings are in place the story is not as good as it could have been had the focus been on one ending.

Also SC2, to me, was a story of you saving the universe, using Sa-Matra to go on your own killing spree conquering the galaxy would have been a big mistake even if they did have the budget or whatever needed for it.

I also dislike books and movies with open endings, if someone wants to tell a story tell me the whole story and how it ends.

SC2 to this day is a perfect story in my opinion, with a few things you can do differently while interacting with the alien species still bringing you to the same end: saving the universe.

I want the new SC to basically do the same thing SC2 did, but prettier and maybe some more different choices, but never multiple endings....

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from StarControl Forums Top

Novastorm,

I'm not saying or suggesting to leave the ending in an "open book" state, and I certainly understand it would be virtually impossible to guesstimate and program every possible variance in the ending that every member of the gaming community could think of.  My wanting to choose the "Path of Now and Forever" or the "Eternal Doctrine" was simply a way to illustrate that having options would bring diversity to the game/story and increase replayability.  If Stardock is striving for the ambiguous adventure that is Star Control, then your character's morality should affect the progression of the game, and it should profoundly affect the "final" outcome of all the decisions and actions your character has made throughout the adventure.

And consider this for a moment...Stardock reps have already stated the "end" of this reboot won't definitively be the end of the game, that we will be able to continue playing after the "final" cut-scene.  It would be extraordinarily interesting that upon nearing the finish line, despite your character's morality throughout, you're given (or find) a piece of information that could potentially alter your perception of the alliance or hierarchy and your character's philosophy on galactic life as a whole.  Being able to choose a direction at the "end game" other than what you were striving for would create an awesome dynamic in the relationships you've created up to that point, and provide a basis for building new relationships after the main story line is finished.

Don't get me wrong.  I love the SC2 story and how it was told/played.  I just believe that in modern gaming (and the way it continues to progress), a large proportion of gamers like, want, and even demand multiple options for both pivotal and trivial decisions, and to have their choices actually matter.  To see the consequences, to see the fruits of their labor play out in a manner befitting their characters' morality is what is gratifying.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

So long as its nothing like the SC3 League Morality Clause Random Bullshit Generator, the HAL 9000 clone computer that annoyingly butted its way into the game. That stupid thing was irritating. I liked the Mass Effect way of doing things, even though it was simplistic; but the endings were "meh" since prior decisions could be completely invalidated.

Personally, I think the ending(s) of Mass Effect 3 were crap-tastic because of the publisher (EA) demanding product ahead of schedule.