I recommended it, Mercenaries make the early game more interesting and brings income closer to production and research in value.  

It also makes starts that aren't 100% focusing on the colony rush viable (or at least a lot less sub optimal).

What happens to Paul?

Paul is now a walrus.

GOO GOO KACHOO!

  I mostly agree with your sentiments Brad.  But I prefer more frequent but smaller (less expensive) content additions than what you suggested.  I'd rather see 2-4 paid DLCs in the next 12 months than just one big expensive expansion, myself.  Another game developer (who shall remain nameless) alternates bug fixing patches (no new stuff) with content DLCs, containing a combination of new stuff everyone gets and stuff only people who buy the DLC get.   But I know some other (nameless) developers have had success with the less frequent but larger expansions.

   I like the more smaller DLC model myself, and I think it would fit in better with the pace of content released for GC3 to date.

   I gave a positive review to the DLC, in part because of everything that had been added to date and in part because I want to see more, like the Constructor change, which I kind of consider part of this DLC.  Or at least paid for by it.

I've owned basically every Stardock game since Gal Civ 1 came out on windows...    Corp Machine is STILL a fun game (you guys should totally update that for modern times btw)

Gal Civ III has a nearly impossible task.  Improving on a game that is hands down one of the best in the genre.

People here forget that Master of Orion 3 was supposed to be the end all be all of 4x games.    Case closed done, no need to make more of them.
In probably the single best bit of brilliance Brad has ever orchestrated he "delayed"  Gal Civ II for a few months and got a little insert advertising it put into the game boxes of MooIII.

Tons of people got MooIII were left underwhelmed and were like... oh there's this other game here that might be good..

People also forget how much was added in two huge expansions as well as multiple free patches in GCII

Does GCIII live up to GCII???    in a LOT of ways it is far better and a lot more engaging.    IN some notable ways it falls short.

In a perfect world Brad would have many times the programmers and people working on the project than he has.



People are complaining that  Paul and Brad have not listened to their ideas.    I think we forget that they brought back the production wheel and quickly added a building to support it.   They have adjusted the planets the resources the maps the moral the production..   They listen a lot.

However they are also a VERY SMALL company.   this doesn't give them permission to put out a shitty product.... if they did that they would be a very former company...  but compare Gal Civ III to   Civ Earth and Beyond.. which is better?

Compare GCIII to pretty much ANY other 4x game out there...    is there a game Other than say GCII that is BETTER than GCIII?



Brad and Paul have done a great job.     There is still a lot more Brad can do for the game...   but I think we forget just how much they have done and just how good the product actually is.

Brad's original reaction seems likely to be an issue with Steam reviews.... and I agree with that part.

If you just released something on steam and you get a single bad review posted, steam just puts an "Overwhelmingly Negative" red stamp on your store page

That can wreck any release regardless of the merits of the release or review. It is just a badly implemented steam feature:

• The "user review rating" is prominently featured on the page (even if the text "User Review" text is gray, the rating is color coded which just highlights the rating)
• Actual reviews are harder to read and are a collection of random ramblings ("this game made me love the two most hated fonts in history"), honest reviews, fan support reviews ("the game is ok, but I like the company") and even trolling
• You have to perform a deliberate action to read the reviews, while you don't have to do anything to read the user review rating (positive or negative)
• Reviews are just Yay or Nay reviews and often a "bad" review is paired with a good review text explaining why the review is categorized as "bad" ("Nay on the game, it is a good game but I gave it a Nay because X sucks)

Now, "the Free Updates Stops Now" assessment.... come on Brad.... I understand your frustration but lashing out here is not the way.

It is hard for anyone to take on criticism and the folks here are vocal about something they love, but that is no reason to make veiled threats and rationalizing them.

Take a cold shower and wait a few days and see how things go, do not panic yet (besides the rating stands at positive right now)

Ultimately I know you'll do what is best for business,

Now about the DLC, I find it a neat addition but not a compelling addition.

The price point seems a bit too high (you have the numbers so I won't question it) and if I didn't got the DLC for free I would have not bought it and I have just waited for a discounted sale instead.

While the DLC adds something new and brings back something old (Races),  I still have issues with the base game.

I find the overall game still broken and not that much fun right now. Adding the Mercenaries bells and whistles, just doesn't get me to play the game (In fact I'm back into playing Galciv2). I'll just wait for some updates and try again.

Nothing. Paul will still be front and center on the game.   The difference will be that I'll also be on the game day to day (or close to it).

That seems unfair given the work done from 1.0 to 1.6 already.

But broadly speaking the problem isn't one of one group being right and another group being wrong.  It's that we are coming from different expectations.

Many in the community look at the DLCs as they are. Which makes sense right? That is, they look at just what's in Mercenaries not what's been in the updates.

But from our point of view, we're spending around $100k a month on work on the base game (not the DLCs) that we give away.  Most of that time is not spent on "bugs" but rather features and new gameplay elements.  

Toonz above made clear he doesn't consider those new features to be anything but things the players were freely entitled to.  So even though no GalCiv game has ever had "Get your ships out of my area of influence" or friendship declarations or the ability to explicitly ask for tribute, these new diplomacy features as one example, were considered nothing special even though it took a lot of engineering hours to implement.

What makes more sense is that after 1.7 that we take that budget and put it into Crusade.  We'd still put out bug fixes and such but they'd be just that, bug fixes. I consider balance and dumb AI behavior to be bug fixes too. 

Then when Crusade comes out, it'll have a crazy number of new features including many that would have been in a 1.8 or a 1.9 (for example, a system to easily export civilizations to Steam that has their own tech tree, ships styles, etc. so when someone downloads the Federation, they get the Federation including the ships, techs, dialog, etc.). Doing that is a lot of work on our part but I can already tell just from this thread that if we gave that away someone would just say we were "fixing" obvious bugs in the way we share civilizations.

Anyway, the bottom line is this:  I think it's totally legitimate for someone to feel that Mercenaries isn't "enough" for $20.  Who am I to say that something should cost? I pay $5 for coffee in the mornings.   What I can say, however, is that it is really clear that the free FEATURE based updates aren't creating enough good will to counter the feeling that the DLC does't provide enough.  Therefore, it makes sense to take the budget being used to create new free features and put that into DLC.

First off Frogboy, thank you for taking the time to reply to us

This was how Mercenaries feedback by the community has been brought up.  Not about other updates prior.

Some main concerns brought up through the beta process of Mercenaries that may have been able to be addressed had there been a longer beta process are as follows

• Mercenary's are limited in nature, you only get 36 in the game and in games with 100 players there aren't many to go around.  (It would be nice to address this for larger games.)
• No way to upgrade Mercenary ships.  (ships become useless mid to late game asside from bonus's)
• Bazaar Stations are clutter on maps mid to late game.  (No use for them after all Mercenary ships are purchased, at slow paced games this happens prior to turn 200)
• AI handling of Mercenaries.  (70 Godlike AI only have purchased 3 Mercenaries I purchased the other 33.)

Do what's right for your company, you know it better than any of us do.

If that's what needs to be done than I understand.  Bug fixes are great btw

I can't wait.

We were comparing to other DLC's for this game, that's where one could argue this point.  I feel Mercenaries does add a lot of dynamic to the game although it comes a little short mid to late game which I hope will eventually be addressed.  Beyond that I'm all for expansions with new content and DLC's not free.  Now I'm biased as I'm a founder and that's why I purchased the Founders Package.  Although I would have to say most of the content provided post release I would have purchased separately.  In fact if there was a way to become a super elite founder at an extra cost to help you guys out, I would almost surely jump on it depending on what it gave me of course.  

Thanks again.

I think for the vast majority they do. That's what keeps people coming back to stardock and becoming founders. People are always going to complain about things, about getting more. I think feature updates are great, they keep you interested until the next DLC/expansion. Anyway, I understand the dilemma. Perhaps you should say all these updates are part of the DLC/expansion but you get them early or as a preview. Then this will make people realise that they were going to be released like that, but getting them early is a bonus.

EDIT: Glad to hear Paul is staying, I like his style.

I am happy to hear the AI updates will continue. With that said, I have no issues with the new update plan.

I also think it may be beneficial to have more time to polish the game updates. Sometimes it has felt like things are just being "slapped" onto the game. Having time to fully incorporate, balance and polish new features will help with the "wow" factor as much as offering more new features at once.

Thanks for the transparency in these matters, it is appreciated in this day and age, where the classical forum ( a bit of irony there ) largely is seen as obsolete as a means of practical communication. Also happy to hear Paul is still on the job, the insight into the game as delivered by him through all those streams, is unrivaled in richness and passion when you look at the sum of all the parts. It is beyond any doubt, greater as a whole. 

======

While I certainly have both a wish list and a desire to see certain things implemented, by and large I'm happy with the state of the game at the moment.  Pricing is what it is for extra content and that'll sort itself out in due time, as it tends to do.  So no comments from me on that score.

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And if ya'll ever implement Sector Lines as a User Preference setting to make it easier to digest large scale maps in any way shape or form similar to GC II I'll be estatic.

This seems very problematic in a hex environment, although I do miss them too...

Just make them like Range Lines.  Problem solved.

And even if they can't be like Range Lines and they cut across a hex? Don't care. Not one whit. Make 'em light (but not too light) and distinguishable from range lines.  

Really, ANYTHING that lets me be able to divide a map into chunks will be a godsend.  I honestly couldn't give two figs about how "ugly" it might be.  Hence the point about making it a user setting.  Hell, make it a preference file setting if you really want us to Want It More and away from the casuals who would be off-put by it when they select it from an option menu.

(think it might be about time I bump up my old thread about this and/or move it to the Feature Request section ;))

The custom named "states"  or "districts"


or even big random map named areas...    "the Tacyon Expanse"     "The Stellar Playground"     "The Nebula of Darkness" etc   would be fun...

I totally agree with you Brad. I think part of the problem here, at least on my part is that there has been a blurring of the lines of what was actually meant to be part of the "base game" and didn't make it, what was you guys at Stardock just improving things you and the customer base weren't happy with, and  those features that were really free just because your awesome like that. There is  also the fact that, as a customer, if you give me a free feature that I don't use, it's going to be hard to be grateful for it, no matter how much work you put into it. So yeah, I may be the odd duck here online but if you put out great content I believe you deserve to get paid for it. 

Overall you guys are doing a great job and deserve a lot of credit, I'm just not all that impressed with mercenaries on it's own. 

Brad, a few questions if you don't mind:

1. Will the mercenaries mechanic be iterated on in future releases?  Things such as additional bonuses, upgrading mercenaries, etc.  As others have said they seem to lose a bit of their potency mid to late game and it would be nice if we could do somethings to beef up their usefulness.
2. Are "heroes" or "leaders" still planned and are those intended to be a separate mechanic from mercenaries or does the mercenary mechanic serve that function?  

I'm really looking forward to that.  I've been playing GC since the OS/2 days, and have always concentrated on the sandbox games, but have found the campaigns and lore more and more interesting over time.

Metacritic's not perfect - no rating website is - but they're sensible enough to wait for 4 reviews before giving anything a rating. Of course, that's for professional reviews. I take the user ratings with large handfuls of salt anyway (someone could have heaps of Steam/whichever website identities and just be posting a negative/positive review with each one of course).

FWIW, if I was Frogboy I'd limit the new features to DLC, too. I don't expect new things for free. Using a house as an anology - I may expect the painter to come over and clean up something he didn't do right for free, but I don't expect the appliance store to install a new oven/large stereo for free. The lousy paint job will annoy me more than not having the newest oven/large stereo and I will want that job fixed up. I might not even like the stereo once it's installed and not use it.

You know, I very rarely post things, but I'll happily weigh in here for what it is worth. 

I play Stardock games, and the Gal Civ franchise, quite a bit, but I don't loiter on the forums a ton so there are just certain mentalities specific to this community I'm not going to be able to speak to. I say that only because I am a bit puzzled as to some of the expectations I see here. So I can only speak for myself on this (and would only be able to do so, of course, even if I knew very well the community expectations that are prevalent here). 

My thoughts are that what was provided in this DLC/Expansion was about right for what I would expect of a 20 dollar chunk of content. I guess I understand Frog's response to this, because I have to admit, it seems like expectations here for Mercenaries are being partly colored by the fact that the free portion of the 1.6 update included things that also come with the expansion and are advertised as being part of it. I guess if you were to consider that you paid for the expansion to get it, but could choose NOT to pay for it, and get a portion of it, that does seem a bit odd.  I mostly would chalk that up to generosity (or technical reasons/concerns) on Stardock's part, and gladly buy the new expansion without thinking about it much beyond that. 

I realize that's just my view on it and I'm probably not in the majority here with this, but that's how I would take it. I don't see any reason to be getting mad or frustrated or angry at what Stardock has provided here in that respect. It feels to me to be pretty in line with offerings from other companies these days when it comes to DLC's, expansions, etc. Also, I don't think Stardock as a whole needs to feel under-appreciated here in anyway by the fan base or by potential new customers either, as we're all just expressing our individual tolerances for what we might or might not get for shelling out 20 dollars for a product. 

As for the reviews of the expansion itself game-play wise, I feel like a good review is warranted (purely my opinion). I think some things are still not working quite as intended, and it would have been nice to see more bug-fixes go in before release, but things are not likely to be perfect (especially these days with the standard attitude behind game development time-lines and all). I don't feel like that should weigh on my review though because, unlike some company's I can name, I feel like Stardock has a proven habit of always going back after the fact and releasing regular fixes/patches to things that aren't quite right.

Hi Stardock, and fellow Space Emperors!

Here is my input:

1) I loved the Mercenaries expansion, the return of two original races, and the addition of the mercs, gave the game a lot more replay value.

2) It was more like a well done DLC, i'm enjoying it very much; but i don't see it as an expansion. Where is simply not enough content in it.

3) If the expansion had more stuff in it, it could have easily been priced at 30$, and people would buy it.

4) Despite all the many great thing in Gal Civ3,, some core features, like government and espionage are still missing. The game simply doesn't feel complete to date.

5) Stardock is still a great company, i hope you can take constructive critique. I been ur loyal customer for a decade, as a gamer, that is a lot more, then i can say about most companies. While i admit, the founders edition promise of one time pay, for all future content, played a role in my decision to buy it at the time, if i didn't trust Stardock to be a great company, which has always delivered great support and games, i wouldn't have purchased it. In fact, i almost never pre order any game. In many ways, i was happy to make an investment into Stardock dev team, rather then the game itself. You earned my trust with your hard work and consistent support of all your products. I suppose end of free updates doesn't effect me, as founder i still get all the Gal Civ 3 content in the future; and it's a good measure, 100 $ is ain't cheap. However, may i suggest what Stardock does deliver all core Gal Civ 3 content in free updates to all the other customers, before moving on to another economic model for the game. After all, those are the same customers who will consider your future developments, and reflect to their friends about Stardock and it's products. 

While i didn't leave any reviews at the time of merc expansion, i did recommend the game to some of my friends, and they have purchased it. The reason why i recommended it, is not just the fun of Gal Civ 3 game play, but the reputation of Stardock overall. As for DLC model, there is this awesome game, Crusader Kings 2, by Paradox. They have a feature complete game, and at the same time massive amount of optional content as DLCs; Paradox also provides all quality of life improvements within those DLCs charge free (when ever those improve any core game mechanics). There is a massive amount of those DLCs, well over 200$ range for all of them. Best part, they don't partition the core game, all those DLC's are entirely optional content. Maybe that game, CKII, would give you folks some inspiration. 

Edit: I understand what you may feel Gal Civ III, in its current state, to be feature complete. Alas, Gal Civ II has set some very high standards. Is that really a bad thing? While you have lived up to most of those expectations, and superseded them, the lack of elections-govs and espionage are sorely lacking, then compared against Gal Civ II.

Anyways, thank you for all your hard work!

Best regards, Cheers!

Well, to kick the proverbial hornets nest . . .

I am a founder.  I didn't have to pay for the expansion.  Having played Mercenaries now for 47 hours I can say it's not only underwhelming, it's not something I would have paid for in the first place.  I am still waiting on Stardock to deliver the complete experience promised with the original release.  A triple-A price, for a game that looks like it was built for 2010. 

I haven't been following these forums lately because, frankly, I have really disliked the direction Gal Civ III went from the get go.  From grid-to-hexes, to the lack of tactical combat, to the removal of ships that gain experience, to the dumbed-down management system.  Hell, the lack of any sort of helpful documentation has been a real issue for me, especially in game.

While the Tech tree is bigger, that is all it is.  It is pretty opaque and I am still not clear WHY raw production is important.

Anyway, a year after release, Brad is complaining that free-content patches haven't been appreciated.  So they will end.

Gotcha.  I still have a game that is buggy and quits after showing me the launch screen about fifty percent of the time.  I have to click most things twice just to register the mouse click, and I don't get to see the prettier ship views because to play on a larger map I have to zoom out and it doesn't scale and most of the time I am looking at the butt ugly Icons (which can glitch-out).

As far as I'm concerned, I'm still waiting for the complete vanilla game.  All your free DLCs haven't brought us there yet, and this $20 dollar expansion didn't do it either.

Personally I think the accumulation of changes leading up to this expansion are quite profound.  I too am an elite founder, and I still think GalCiv3 was worth the money.

I left you guys a good review. While I thought mercenaries didnt give all that much for $20, I really appreciate the hard work you guys put in for the 6 patches prior (and 1.7!). The scope and potential of this game is really ambitious, so it will always be hard to match expectations. If the review helps lift sales and pays for devs working on patches, im happy.

I'll be really sad if you ditch the continuous releases. Infact, it might actually make me actively dislike the game, or at least quit playing until 2 expansions down the road - as there is still quite a bit missing/broken*. What's keeping me from getting pissed off about this is your constant efforts to fix and improve it! Every patch I log in and play another game.

I think from what you are saying though your funding model is broken. Frankly, I'd be happy to pay $5/month or more - even as a founder - if you guys continued to pump patches and mini features for the next few years.

*so whats broken?

• The tech trees lack polish and balance. Some of them are straight up awful (Altarian), some lack flavour, and others just don't show the level of differentiation that say, the Yor, Terran and Thalan trees do. The good news is Torian and Arcean trees seem OK.
• You really need to explain the raw mechanics somewhere. I understand them, but only through trial and error. As a new player, working out how to build your economy is tough.
• The AI is still nowhere near as good as galciv2. But you've made LOADS of improvement to it. Still much more needed.
• Invasions are boring - but actually I kinda don't care about this.
• The map feels a little empty. Asteroid mines, new starbase types, new (luxury?) resources, maybe shipyard upgrades - I dunno what it needs, but I feel like most hexes dont add anything. Precursor worlds was great in this regard - it just spiced up the map. 
• The campaign was underwhelming, but its great to hear you intend on fixing this
• Diplomacy, while better, still needs some love
• I'd love more ship parts? Or the ability to make them somehow? Or tie my ships to a race without xml editing? Infact more workshop support in general...

You've done a couple of things very right though

• Ignored the complainers and ended the wheel. Thank god. It was SO tedious before. Now its 100x better. It also makes the AI seem harder, as Im able to build a much less powerful economy then I was able to with the wheel. You should stick to your guns more often.
• Fixed starbases. God that was tedious. Its still not perfect, and needs some polish, but its much better. 
• Continuous AI improvement. At the end of the day, its what makes the difference between an average 4x game and a great one. Galciv2 still has the nastiest AI of any game ive played - and yet it feels organic and not too "cheaty". 

Remember - in the (apparently made up) words of Henry Ford:

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Elite Founder here, thought I'd jump in on the conversation. I haven't paid an extra dollar for DLC or Expansions so I have (apart from Mercenaries) really no idea what was a DLC and what was a free update.

Now that I have that out of the way I'd like to say that I have almost 290hours on GC3 now, and at $100 bucks that's a great return on my investment! I have my issues, but I have my loves as well, and every time I boot it up it feels like an issue has been fixed and moved to the love column!

Personally I'd rather a return to the GC2 days of single, massive game-changing expansions in the lines of DA and TA rather than the incremental change of a stead stream of DLC and free updates, but I can understand how the game development market has gone that way and am happy to accept it - and enjoy it!

I would have paid for Mercenaries just to get my beloved Arceans back as a playable race of gigantic warrior bad-asses - who's only physical rival in the galaxy was the Drath (Shout out to the super manipulators!) but the Mercs have really changed up my play style and I appreciate that content possibly even more than having the Arceans back!

The teams done a good job Brad, and I look forward to seeing where the game goes in the future! I'll be playing right along with it!

Cheers, Fate  

P.S: Can we please get more achievements! There's so many unique things in this game that could be added as achievements - I'd pay 10 or 20 bucks even for more things to aim for in my play through's at this point!