Mercenaries an Underwhelming Disappointment

This right here is the only thing I take out of this post that was promised pre-release to be included in a post release patch.  With that is the only thing that I've been really disappointed with not being put in place yet other than numerous bug fixes.

Other than that I respect your feelings and I hope Stardock continues to improve on their game as time goes on

Sooo, I rarely comment on these posts, because usually they devolve... but today I just can't resist (perhaps because my name got dropped lol).

1) Thanks for the compliment.

2) Thanks for venting frustration in a mature way.

I would consider the following excuses. Note, they are excuses. Excuses kind of a get bad rap though, "I couldn't get groceries because I was shot in the leg" is a really GOOD excuse... but still an excuse, ya know?

A ) StarDock is a small company, so committed to "doing what they want" that they sold off a larger profit generating platform, a competitor to Steam, now called "Origin" that EA uses. That is some serious commitment. They wanted to do something new, and Mercenaries is a new feature. Its not always about what "we" want.

B ) Forum posts are not indicative (enough) for the company to make decisions in my opinion, and likely, they agree. I'm not certain it was wise of them to listen to people about the "wheel". A flood of compromise equals a very bland game.

C ) To some extent these things are planned well in advance and it simply was too late to change gears (and changing gears derails things, I blame the wheel and AI issue for why we do not have better starbase management. Though that was the right call with the AI).

D ) Bear in mind, new races from SD means new Ship Parts. Assuming those are filled with as many as say the Drengin, I'm quite happy to pay for that. Modeling and texturing isn't necessarily easy.

The validity of these excuses, how you weigh them, etc. is up to the individual. I won't try to argue one way or the other, but I think these are the key reasons why Mercenaries does not address starbases or invasions.

My personal wishlist?

Starbase Management

Shipset Editor with Full Color options

Improved Map Editor (I consider it almost useless in its current state)

Invasions are pretty low on my list (though, the current system could use some re-balancing, but whatever).

Thanks for reading.

Incorrect they sold it to GameStop, and was the GameStop app prior to them discontinuing the use of it about 6 months to a year ago all together.

I bought the game November 14, 2014.  I've also bought 2 expansions.  Despite this I have never loaded up the game because what I read from people I respect such as XwerewolfX and Icemania, I will not enjoy the game in it's present form.  Like werewolf I have great respect for Stardock and buy almost everything you put out.  

For this game however I am glad I am not a founder and I now have 3 expansion packs to buy Precursor, map pack, and mercenaries.  Normally I would buy them as they were released at full price. Don't get me wrong I am still going to buy them.   However due to the poor ratings I will probably wait until they are discounted 75% before I buy them.

This is bad for Stardock, for the Digital Distributor, the Industry and me  And based on posts I have seen on Steam and E4X I doubt I am alone in doing this.

I therefore second Xwerewolf'sX recommendation.

On Steam I am I'm Spartacus

I feel bad for you for not playing and enjoying a game you have purchased.  With that being said I would recommend you give it a try.  Why draw on a conclusion of others?  This would be different if you didn't already own the game, however, being that you own the game give it a whirl and generate your own opinion and conclusion.  

Dispite all of this I have well over 700 hours of play time in this game and I am overall satisfied with the game.  Are their gaps, sure, are there some bugs that need to be worked out yes, is it an overall bad game, no.  Play the game give it a try, that's all I ask.

You may be right Sellore - however I would be comparing it to GC2 - like XwerewolfX - I have played over 500 hours of that and am still playing and enjoying it in version 2.20

I own at least 5 copies of GC2 including the boxed ones.

And I would rather invest my time playing something I enjoy than enduring something i don't.  I went through that (about 200 hours total ) to give  both Stardrive 1 and 2 a chance and felt both were hopelessly broken.  ( I know they are not Stardocks games and not even close in quality - just making the point that the time is more important than the money to me.)

Heroes has been a feature that has been asked for since the Alpha.  I can remember a number of times in the devs streams where Paul said they wanted to add it in post-launch and often tied with the returning of ship XP.

I have well over 1000 hours on GC2 and while I feel that GC2 was more sound as a game, Stardock has had a decade plus to fine tune that game.  I go back to GC2 now after playing GC3 and I get distracted looking for the newer options in GC3.  Do I miss some of the features not yet present in GC3 that were in GC2, sure.  Just like on any "new" game, you may loose somethings in the new version that were in the previous, and may come back in expansions down the road.  Now in a perfect world the game would have everything the previous had plus some but, that just isn't the case.

Now I'm not saying give it hundreds of hours unless you enjoy it, however, give it a start, if you don't like it after several hours than wait a while longer and come back later after they have ironed out some additional things that you're looking for.

I also though hope this is not the end for "heros".  I still miss the experience upgrades the ships fleets received in GC2, hoping that's still coming as was mentioned since pre-release as an expansion down the road.

This seems to be a Elite founders thread and I am going to chip in as well. I am clearly on the 'Stardock Fanboi' side of things. I love GCII and I currently LOVE GCIII. 

However I am going to align with XwerewolfX on this one. While I value having both the Arceans and the Torians back, the Mercenaries feel like a feature that could have been a DLC for say 10.00. Granted I have not played with them and as yet, I do not see Mercs changing how I play the game. If the Ai does not seize the opportunity than my current game is the same regardless of the expansion. 

Now the notes in 1.6 say some things that can affect the game, namely not selling Military techs unless the ai likes you. <<<This was a good change!>>

I appreciate all the exceptional hard work Paul and the Stardcok team has put into this amazing game. However I do feel that Werewolf nailed  how I feel about the very first Expansion for our beloved game. 

My personal opinion is that Stardock should push on the Expand-alone and get that released asap and change the roadmap to include it in 2016.

Cheers and happy conquering! 

Agreed...

It could have been more, however, this is the way I look at it and, I'll use examples here.  It appears that Stardock is doing this...  DLC is 1 feature added to the game (Snathi, Map Editor) or as other companies have even though I know horrible example with that game as it flopped SimCity 2013 (DLC London map pack).  Then expansion  twice the content plus, with the expansion you aren't just getting 1 faction, however, you are getting 2 factions, plus mercenaries, they could have split this into 3 DLC's , this is just a bundle more or less.  Again an example The Sims expansions are (Vacations, Pets) add quite a lot to the game versus DLC's (just a couple new clothes).  

The Expandalone, however, appears to be more of a large game changing event, changing the way you play the game as you mentioned.  That I would expect to be more than the expansion and include those metrics which you are referring to.

Now I haven't seen the separate cost of the expansion versus the DLC's but, right now I see the value at about 3 - 4 times the cost of a DLC.  However I won't discuss more specifics in here as it's not released yet.

Dear God, you know something's seriously wrong when Larsenex sides with the critics.

I'm not a founder, so I haven't played Mercs yet, but I do have to say it's not exactly lighting my soul on fire with anticipation. When it was announced I was just kind of 'Huh. OK'. I'm not against the idea of including hero units or whatever... it just didn't seem particularly compelling. I'll probably buy it, but I can happily wait til it's on sale. The extra races and tech trees will be nice; the heroes might add a little bit of character to the game (though I'd rather they weren't stuck to individual ships and could just be assigned to fleets or planets, like, oh, every other 4X with characters since MOO); the extra ship parts and campaign I honestly couldn't care less about but whatever, they're kind of expected. But yeah, the mercs themselves aren't exactly much of a hook for the headline item. 

On the other hand, though, I think we need to remember that many of the things we've been hoping for are actually patch material. A solution to SB spam? That's kinda needed in the base game and I'd be a bit pissed off if SD turned round and charged me another $20 for it. Ditto the invasions revamp, which was again a feature that was meant to be included in the original release; and deeper diplo too. Any of these being pay-for DLC items would be inviting the usual anti-DLC 'money grubbing all should have been in the base game' backlash.

An expansion should not replace bits of the underlying game, it should expand on it. Once you remove all the things that are actually revamps in the main game, the list of stuff for SD to pick from for the expansion is rather smaller because it needs to be something that can sit next to the main game without being required. It'd have to be something like Mercs, or maybe planet killers, or the crusades or whatever, rather than 'fix this'. If something in the base game is sub-standard, then it should be fixed in patches for the main game, not "fixed if you just give us another $20".

The DLC/expansion model is designed to charge us for extras; SD creates new modules from whole cloth and adds them to the game. What you're ultimately arguing for here is that you'd rather SD charged us for improvements to existing modules, which is actually the job of patches. From the point of view of the Elite Founders, there's no significant difference between a patch and a DLC or expansion - you'll automatically get them. For me, I need to be convinced to buy the expansion, and one way to alienate people like me is charging me a second time to replace modules I've already paid for.

LOL

... sorry Larsenex.

Are the 1.6 patch notes actually out, I haven't seen them?

Disappointing, but not surprising.  I get the impression that Stardock doesn't listen to us at all.  I mean why would they introduce Mercenaries, when the main game isn't complete? Why wont they concentrate on improving invasions, AI even more, battles, effects, bugs?  and then introduce cool expansion packs.  This strategy just doesn't make sense to me.  Worse thing is I want to play this game so badly but in current state it is just uninstalled, simply waiting for it to mature a little more.

I'm too tired for this.

False, there have been threads both here and on the Steam forums asking for heroes. As well as plenty of posts in the wishlist thread.

How many of those custom civilizations have new ship style, new tech tree with new improvements and new abilities?

Here they are.

As for me I'm having fun playing the expansion.

Not a founder, but I agree with the OP, I was especially hoping for some improved planetary invasion mechanic, since planets are really the main prize of a war so it was always a little deflating to just read "victory" after an invasion (fleet battles are less consequential but far more thought goes into them for the player, and they can be fun to watch).

I will buy the expansion. But I really hope focus after that goes to some of the items addressed in this thread. I don't mind paying for it, though I imagine some would...

I liked the idea of a leaders system but a ship with some text is not what I expected.The game does not allow you to retreat from a losing battle to save your hero either.After FE I am surprised with is best they could come up with.Where did the imagination go.

About mercenary becoming useless halfway into a game isn't that intended by design, no?

AN Mercenary you hired in age of exploration is good during age of exploration but definitely can be weak by age of ascension because of improvements in tech? Isn't that kinda obvious. You let him go, and he goes back on the market to be hired out by less advanced civs out there in space. And then you use that freed up credits to hire more better mercenary suitable to your needs.

This is pretty much normal. Very much so like employees being let go because they're of no longer use to a company.

If a mercenary upgrades then you will need to increase your payments to a specific mercenary to correctly reflect the increased value of his services.

sORRY WIZARD (oops)

but for some reason SD blocked this to founds only.  I would really like to see the 1.6 list, if merc stuff is left out fine

I agree but, I feel this would be a great option

How many of those custom civilizations have new ship style, new tech tree with new improvements and new abilities?

Right-o.  I am not a founder, so haven't experienced the expansion yet, but imo, those alone make it worth it.  The mercs are just a bonus.

By the way, I just noticed for the first time, the other day, that when you zoom in you can see the drones mining and see the next ship being worked on in the shipyards.  Very nice SD, very nice.

I don't suppose they added any faction colors, by chance, did they?  I dislike having two factions with the same ZOC colors.

It seems I am one of the few people who actually requested heroes... albeit a long time ago. In light of the outstanding issues still remaining in the base game, which I agree ought to be properly dealt with in patches and not paid dlc, they are no longer at the top of my list of stuff that needs to happen, but I am still partial to the idea... at least in theory. I figure I'll buy Mercenaries eventually, though maybe not at full price and I'll be waiting to see if the ai is re-worked to use them effectively.

One thing I am concerned about after reading many of the comments is the way mercs/heroes have been implemented. Problems with the ai aside, it all sounds a bit superficial, tbh. I want heroes, but more specifically I want fun things to do with heroes... like having some options that wouldn't otherwise be available when exploring or when interacting with other factions, quests and so forth. How about missions like capturing x number of space monsters, having the option of harpooning them and dragging them into a black hole or using a special ability to charm them into your fleet?

Forgive me if I've missed something but it just doesn't sound like they will add that much to the experience.

Oh, i just got a memory flash.... were there space monsters in galciv1? It has been so long since i played it, i am not sure if my memory is tricking me?

Torians just hired a nice Merc with major offense in an attempt to stave off my attack. Level of AI's is Incredible. 

@Seilore, thank you for the clarification. Funny how memory tricks you eh?

I'm actually quite pleased that StarDock is doing something NEW, with GC3 Mercs, that they haven't done before in GC, that was definitely one of the critiques from reviewers and some folks here, when it was first released, that the game didn't push the envelope on its predecessor. This is TRYING to do that...

Is it my cup of tea? Well, yes and no. As a player, No, it adds very little of interest to me in its current form. As a modder? Hell Yeah, can't wait to make some unique one-off ships and throw it into GRM as new mercs!

I think what would make Mercs more exciting, would be if you could hire them, attack specific targets, and be blameless diplomatically. In addition to, or opposed to the "buy them permanently" model. That would be exciting.

I've only had a very short look at the Mercenaries. I'd imagine that going forward they'll be able to do more things than currently (recon, espionage, propaganda etc? Okay, maybe that'll end up being done by your own Spies but don't see why a Mercenary couldn't do that) and I'd like to see a situation where, yes, the AI can use them well but also a situation where a Mercenary is being hired by two races - which one do they work for? And if that other race knows you were looking to hire a certain mercenary with certain skills, that has an impact on your relationship with them - ie hiring a Mercenary who can invade before the Age of War should make them rather displeased.

As for any idea that Stardock aren't listening to us, I think we should all bear in mind that there's "listening to a forum" and "doing what that forum says". Also, let's not pretend that there's complete agreement on anything from the forum so Stardock are probably listening to different - sometimes polar opposite - ideas about a certain subject. Which - if any - do they go with?