The Big Thread of What's Off Limits vs. Fair Game

As I understand it, components of SC1 and (especially) SC2 will not be returning if their use impinges on the capacity of the original creators to continue the story they began all those years ago.  In that light, I think most items on your list would be A-OK as long as their use isn't going to impede the continuation of the story from SC2.

Example: Procyon is a star that exists, and the use of the star name itself shouldn't be problematic, however it was also tied to the Chmmrr if I recall, so visits to Procyon would have to preclude any advancement of the stories of the Chenjesu and Mhrnmmhrm (how many m's was that? lol).  At least that's my take on it.

I would be amazed if, to use another example of yours, the precursors were not present in the story, but it must indeed be tricky for them to allow any meaningful investigation of precursor lore without impinging at least a little on the original creators' ideas.

We got a MP3 of the quasi space music, so it seems that quasi space will be returning.  I think that means that the fabric of the SC universe is likely preserved.  So why not rainbow worlds, or tzo crystals?  Definitely Stardock has a peculiar juggling act ahead of them to make a game that feels like Star Control but carries over no aliens, so I'd expect to see as much non-lore stuff as possible carry over.  But of course, this is just my speculation.

This is exactly what I'm talking about! We're super on the same page, and wouldn't it be great if Vaelzad or whoever answered some questions here so it's not just our rampant speculation? I want to interact with these people! 

And we got an mp3 for... Wait, quasi-space or hyperspace? Wasn't one regular and the other only when jumpong through the portal? So if it's QUASI-SPACE, that could be a big spoiler!!! Well find and create a portal at some point to use as a shortcut around the Galaxy! 

Hyperspace theme, yeah you're right. My bad, sorry.

A big question for me is how the ship abilities will be done/recycled. There are a number of common themes and distinct special abilities closely associated with particular aliens. Can new aliens have parallel abilities that are essentially the same? Or will every alien have a unique new set of abilities?

This is a perfect example! What can be reused? Floating satellites that zap incoming projectiles? Crystals that break apart? Gas bubbles that follow other ships? Limpets that slow down the enemy? Individual fighters that jump out and board the enemy, destroying them from within? Where's the line that can't be crossed?

Hopefully someone from the devs will jump in to clarify each point! Keep adding!

Well, considering it's an ALTERNATE universe, and not necessarily the same timeline, it wouldn't be completely unfeasible that ships would have similar designs. Something something monkeys and typewriters. 

?? Alternate universe...

Anything anything sea-urchins and slime trails.

Just know that all weapons appearing in SC are not unique and the concepts certainly not owned by Toys for Bob.

There are many precedents.

Some of the ships might be reminiscent of ships from the original in some ways, but the space combat will be very different from the original for several different reasons.  First, and the biggest change, is that the original used a wrap-around map where the ship magically left one side and came out on the other.  They have already said this SC will use a large "solar system" map where you will disengage from the fight if you stray out of bounds for too long.  This is essentially an open map.  Second is that the view in SC2 was centered on a point between you and the enemy, this is what made the Ilwrath's cloak work and had other effects as well.  With more than 2-ship possible on the screen at one time now, the view must be centered on the players ship instead.  Third, screen resolution is far greater today than it was when SC2 was made and this has a significant impact on this type of top down view game.  And finally, and also very significant, the original SC had only 16 possible directions a ship could point in, modern games do not have this restriction and the control is much more smooth.  The original SC in several cases relied on this 16-direction limitation in the design of its ships.

So without the wrap around screen the Druuge and Mycon, for example, can't work in their original form.  You might have a sniper ship like the Druuge, or something armed with plasma torpedoes like the Mycon, but they ships will work very differently because of the very different map type.  Similarly, you might have a ship that cloaks, but the cloak would have to work very differently because of the different screen centering.  And if you thought the Earth Cruiser was bad in the original SC... try it when the enemy isn't limited to 16 directions and there are no blind spots to hide in anymore.

So there might be ships that remind you of ships from SC2, but in most cases they will need to work very differently in some ways due to the different environment they are operating in.  The good news, is that my 35+ years of experience with these types of top down space combat games leads me to the opinion that all of these necessary changes from how the original worked are improvements that will make the combat even better than the original.

Part of a quote. You know, the one about how with enough time, monkeys could write the works of shakespear randomly hitting keys on a typewriter?  Anyways, they've already said that this game won't be interfering with the original SC timeline. That clearly means an alternate universe/timeline.  And yes, the point you're making is the point I'm making.

I agree: given the magnitude and pervasiveness of the weapon/special system we're used to from SC2, then if we're not seeing the original aliens, we'll see similar weapon/special systems.

The point I'm leading to: if the systems are recycled then it kind of precludes a supermelee that makes all ships available (unless it is deemed okay that similar-but-not-same ships are competing in the supermelee). The original precedent is SC2's supermelee still had SC1's aliens and ships available even when many of those aliens and ships didn't feature in the SC2 main game. 

Different question regarding off-limits: assuming that we're in an alternate universe. Is it possible to have an event where you encounter a single Kzer-Za dreadnought that (as the dialogue reveals) has traveled through some dimensional rift and found itself stranded in this universe.

The scenario is fully safe in terms of original universe continuity. A single ship being lost to the original universe generally doesn't alter the course of its history drastically - while giving "us" the opportunity to run into something familiar and similarly displaced.

What are we not using... 

We are not using the story and races associated with the Ur-quan storyline. 

What to expect... 

We are not using the original ship designs, the alien races will all have new ship designs. 

We are doing are best to not reuse star names. 

Everything else is fair game. 

Okay, the bit regarding star names really caught me off guard.

The star names from SC2 are all actual stars. Yes, the starmap layout and distances in Hyperspace were not accurate reflections of where they are in our galaxy, but they were all real star names based on the actual constellations that have been known to astronomers for centuries.

By that logic, SC2 "reused" hundreds of star names. So have a number of other games taking place in our galaxy. Why should this be any different?

Agreed about the actual ship DESIGNS. But this doesn't answer the questions about their weapons?

Also not answered, what about general systems? Crew = Health bar?

COULD Hyperspace make a return? Quasi-space? COULD a quasi-space portal make a return?

Could middling things like Tzo Crystals make a return? A Clear Spindle?

Mysterious rainbow worlds?

Please keep in mind, Vaelzad - We're not asking what's ACTUALLY making a return, we're simply asking what COULD POSSIBLY make a return, so we can know what to even TALK about, what to recommend, what to hope makes the cut. Because there's no use making a thread or commenting about having satellites that shoot incoming projectiles (a la Chmmr) or space fighters boarding your ships (a la Orz), if there's no chance those could even make it.

Turning Jets? Hellbore Cannons?

What about minor races like the Dnyarri? That's probably a bad example, since they were central to the storyline. But what about even less involved in the Urquan continuity like the Burvixese, Mael-Num, Gg, Taalo and... Oh, the Zebranky, which were only briefly mentioned! And the Evil Ones! And....... even Precursors? None of them were in Star Control II.

And there's no sense talking about the beauty of Rainbow worlds if something like that is impossible to include!

It's just so vague to say, "Everything else is fair game". Could we really have THE ULTRON BACK?! Please! Can we get a more specific scope of what we should think about, imagine and hope for in the reboot?

And I second the whole Star Names, thing... why leave those out? It's hard to defy the fact that the Centauri constellation is the closest one to us. Are you going to rename Alpha Centauri to something else? That'd just be weird. Besides, they're all public domain as much as naming a country that inhabits North America, The United States of America.

We also should discuss where Stardock draws the line between "homage" and "rip off" - for example, we know the Pkunk won't make it into the reboot. BUT, could there technically be:

1) A Bird-Shaped race

2) A Bird-Shaped race of New Age hipsters?

3) A Bird-Shaped race of New Age hipsters whose ship can resurrect with a Hallelujah?

4) A Bird-Shaped race of New Age hipsters whose ship can resurrect with a Hallelujah, named the Pflonk?

How close would Stardock get to simulating a similar race/tech/ship/idea, without crossing that line?

The point is: Stardock wants input and guidance from us. But we need to formulate a way to give that input, without crossing the line of what's fair game, and what's off limits. I can't tell you how many threads there are where someone steps too far and gets shut down with a "Stardock will not be using ______ in any form". So let's list things here, and get answers to them, so we can start creatively shaping the game we all adore!

Hmmm.. I thought everything else is fair game covered it.  

Lol. Fine.

Rainbow Worlds, weeeeee!!!!!!!!!

Yep. I believe we released an early concept of them in the founder's vault already. 

R.O.Y.G.B.I.V..... hmmm. Bottom left? Upper right? I don't see the "R." represented lol.

Sweet!  I vote we rename Sol "Home Plate."

Seriously though, if you're not reusing star names, I hope that means this takes place in a different "quadrant" or whatever.  I always wondered what stars would be out there if you took the SC2 map and shifted it to where Sol was in the top right instead of the bottom left.  There's a whole galaxy to explore!!

PLEASE use the Precursors! Or their pet dogs, or something!  Just let us have a meaningful tie-in to SC2.  We need that or it will seem like a clone, not an endorsed sequel/prequel.

There will be tie-ins, don't worry about that. :) 

Different stars, or at least stars not in same configuration makes me happy. I would prefer that it'd be in the same universe, just different part of it. So distant that it might as well be the "alternate universe", but still the storylines could theoretically meet if the creators decided to make references to it when they finally return to Star Control.

There is one fan project that already took a stab on that: http://orig15.deviantart.net/1b96/f/2012/017/8/f/project_6014_starmap___red_by_dczanik-d4mnqac.png
I love that approach.

Or we can rename it LOL.

Basically reverse engineering what Vaelzad said this is what the new game will have.

What are we using... 

We are using a NEW story and NEW races in a totally NEW storyline. 

With NEW original ship designs and as much as possible NEW star names.

So weapons can be reused or rehashed since it has no bearing or influence on SC2 storyline.

If we use a different area of space or dimension or whatever then rainbow worlds could also be used since they are not exactly 100% critical to SC2 storyline.

But they will not be the "same" "rainbow worlds".

As long as the new aliens and storyline does not affect SC2 storyline and time continuity then anything goes!

That means that SC2 aliens will most likely be limited to cameo appearances and not have much impact or influence on the storyline of the new game.

This thread got me thinking about Super Melee, since it is a seperate multiplayer part (or at least has been in SC2, no idea how this will be handled in the new SC) of the game....can we expect to see SC2 ships in there?

It will have no impact on the story to be able to fly a Nemesis in Super Melee, just that some people who never played SC2 won't know its origin.

Or perhaps since ty-ins are confirmed, the Orz could make it in (even though existing races deconfirmed....how can you have ty-ins without original races?) since they're interdimensional beings anyway.

What i'm saying is, i want a Nemesis =P