My Concern for the End Game

from SorcererKing Forums

Sorcerer King is easily the best fantasy 4X that Stardock has ever done. It has the potential to become its own subset of 4X and be one of the only representatives of a 4X RPG (a term I'm pushing too much, probably, but still super ideal) that exists. You've done some really great things, Cbray, Scott and company.

Because of the quasi-linearity of the end game (currently, there are only two ways to win) and they both involve the Sorcerer King, I'm hoping that with the extra time you've been given to make Sorcerer King a classic (and this could happen), you can flesh out some variability with the end game. This could come in the way of a rotating roster of lieutenants, a rotating skillset or class of the Sorcerer King (and maybe with each class he takes, he'd have the same two lieutenants so you'd know which class he was this game), or even random events that come in the form of the Sorcerer King throwing out global spells that effect your strategies.

I know that Brad has spoken of the 'Dungeon Master' creating something similar, but I've never seen anything like that. If that's still in the plans, AWESOME.

Basically, while I know that your main focus is to polish what you have and to make sure that it's all balanced and working as intended, I think you guys should really consider how to improve replayability a bit. Granted, the minor faction rotation, the various sovereigns, and large list of quests do that a bit, the end game is now where the variability is nearly non-existent. If you can shore that up, I genuinely feel like you'll have made one of the best fantasy 4X games of all time. It's only one of maybe 4 games that I can remember having this much faith in. The other most recent one was Endless Legend and my faith was well placed there.

I think it is here, too. I really do.

16,964 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree SK is currently my favourite of the long line of Elemental based games. However, the end game is a bit of a slog to say the least. usualy when I am ready to take on the lieutenants they are no match for my army. To be honest they have never proven to be a hurdle in a the 10+ games I have played, apart from the fact that I have had to hunt them down. It is boring trying to find them. 

 

I love the final battle with the SK, but I have never been in a situation where I thought I might lose. I like the fact that ally's turn up and that the enemy has some cool looking ally's of its own.

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I just killed both of the SK's lieutenants about five turns apart.  It spawned a Juggernaut and an army that were damaged by my ZOC.  Easy to mop up.  

One brief splash screen saying you are bad, pitiful person, you killed my guy... blah blah blah after I dropped the first Lt, nothing for the second.

Hell the counter didn't even bump up.

 

Shouldn't the sky turn dark, and wrathful lightning strike, randomly destroying buildings in my cities?

A dark portal opens and demonic minions descend upon my helpless townsfolk?

A random non-capital city rebel hoping to appease the SK?

The end game needs some DOOM!

 

 

 

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting NaytchSG, reply 2



The end game needs some DOOM!

 

 

 

Yup.

Reply #4 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I'd like to discuss this because I have the same concerns.

Feel free to brainstorm in this thread on what things you'd like to see in that third act.

I think we have the first act nailed. The game has an awesome opening.

The second act is really good too where you're hunting the LTs and building up your armies and cities.

But the third act..

It just seems very preordained that you're going to win (or not).

Reply #5 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 4

I'd like to discuss this because I have the same concerns.

Feel free to brainstorm in this thread on what things you'd like to see in that third act.

I think we have the first act nailed. The game has an awesome opening.

The second act is really good too where you're hunting the LTs and building up your armies and cities.

But the third act..

It just seems very preordained that you're going to win (or not).

 

Shi! just needs to get gloomier as the doomsday counter progresses. A fading sun, thunderstorms, more taunting from the Sorcerer King. It just needs to feel like the world really is coming to an end. I also think that the Sorcerer King's lieutenants need to vary, so that you don't always know what strategy you'll need.

 

Also, it'd be cool to see the SK throw everything he has at you after you destroy the lieutenants. Remember the original Colonization? When you declared independence, the King threw everything they had at you. Every time you did something that would piss the king off, they added more to their retinue and the end game became harder. A mechanic like this would be pretty cool for Sorcerer King. Hell, you could even add random events based on your Luck/Courage/Whathaveyou that would cause the SK to add to his retinue, too.

 

Just thoughts.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

The lts are a bit of a push over later in the game. They need more henchmen to soak up some of your attacks. At the moment I can take out the Lts by simply concentrating on them for a couple of round of combat.

 

I love the idea of the world getting gloomier as the doom counter goes up. It could be that the ground ruptures in places and smoked and ash spew out, the trees could start looking sickly etc

 

I also like the idea that when the last Lt is removed that the King goes for you 100% and any his ally's are ordered to take you down. Maybe his ally's should also start to attack your ally's?

 

 

Reply #7 from SorcererKing Forums Top

A little idea you can take for a spin.

When you have killed the sorcerer king you have to bury him to prove your victory to the world.
4 graveyards will spawn on the map.
3 of them are cursed.
Curse A: Your hero will turn against you and you will have to defeat him with what's left of your army.
Curse B: Your army turns against you and you will have to defeat your army with your hero.
Curse C: The Sorcerer King will ressurect and you will have to kill him again with what you have left.
In the fourth graveyard you will simply bury the sorcerer king and win.

You will be able to invoke an Oracle after you killed the SK if you have built a temple.

The Oracle will offer you:
Mana + 1 Sovereign spell cast
or
Scrolls + 1 Sovereign spell cast
or
Let you know which graveyards have Curse A + Curse B

If you have the Temple and the Tower of Mastery you can bury the SK there and win.

If you have all the shards + temple or you have killed both lieutenants and the SK the Oracle will
be so pleased with you that it will tell you which graveyard doesn't have a curse

(Maybe include an option to play with this or not.)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 4

I think we have the first act nailed. The game has an awesome opening.

I disagree. Most of my games starts with 30-40 turn pressing "end turn" until I can have an army to move out. Yes, i do a little bit of scouting and may be even kill some thugs if i'm lucky enough, but then mosly sit at capital protecting it. 

I had one game with awesome opening, though. I've got cruel flavour from the starting quest and then on the 3rd turn DM gived me dominance spell for this (which is basically zero cost hypnotism). This was awesome start, but obviosly ruined later stages because there was no challenge at all.

This game needs a lot of work to be done to claim awesomeness. I'm not speaking about new content, like many others do. Just make things which are already there to work nicely.

Reply #9 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Interesting. You just camp out in Athica until you fill out your army with Soldiers?

That sounds on paper to be...suboptimal. Totally willing to be proved wrong, though. You're giving up 30-40 DC and scouting and questing and...so much stuff to have a couple more units.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

1. This was more than month ago.

2. After 30-40 turns you can have something better then soldiers, that's the reason of waiting in the first place.

3. Scouting is cruicial, but it's just scouting. Qusting needs army. And with a weak army you can just loose more DC if hero gets killed.

4. I play Insane only :)

5. Everybody says the game got much better now. I'll check after release :)

Reply #11 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Gotcha. Be interested to see what you think of the 1.0 game!