A change in development strategy means a change for this Stardock fan

I'm pretty sure Stardock has no say as to when/if Steam puts their games on sale.

EDIT: After doing a little research I am still not sure, but it appears that Steam sort of proposes sales and developers can choose to opt in or not. That being said, I'm not totally sure how selling their game at a discount translates to not caring about their customers.

Because it means that being an enthusiastic fan of Stardock and buying the game really early, perhaps wanting to help out with rooting out bugs, balance issues and spelling mistakes, means you'll pay more money than someone who will buy it when the game is nearing release. You don't really get enjoyment for the extra money you paid, since the game really just reached the point where it's solid enough to be interesting. 

That said, I give them the benefit of the doubt and will believe they didn't make that discount decision until they say otherwise.

I'm pretty sure you can always expect the current price of a Stardock game to be the highest price. GalCiv III was first available at $100, then $40 and now with the sale $25. It seems to me that the higher price is supposed to encourage the most ardent, enthusiastic fans to buy in and keep the more casual, less invested ones out, at least early in the process while they are still making heavy changes to the gameplay.

The complaint that arises when games go on sale has never and will never make sense to me beyond a small amount of an intellectual level.  Everything (even the uber strict priceguided Apple products) will go on sale at some point in its life cycle.  Often times it happens during development cycle.

The only questions that should be pertinent are:  

Was the game worth the price when I bought it?

and

Did I get enough enjoyment from the game during the time I had it?

If the answer to those two questions are "YES", then, frankly, it doesn't matter if someone else got it cheaper (or more expensive for that matter) at a later point.  It truly doesn't.  It really only matters if the goal is to "win" at the game of paying the least amount possible, ever.  But even then, the question of enjoyment from the last eight months (or whatever) comes in to play.

Did the game give you enjoyment?  If so, then it shouldn't matter if others can buy it cheaper later on.  Because while they may get it cheaper now they didn't get the months of enjoyment that you had the opportunity to have.  Cost/benefit equation in a nutshell.

Now if you didn't get any enjoyment (or not enough) during the development cycle, then fair does.  But, then the adage of, "You paid yer monies, you took yer chances" comes into play.  Buying a Early Access  and not using the access that the Early Release gives one seems a little self-defeating.  Or at the least, one should realize that games are going to be cheaper at various points, and one should wait until one feels comfortable jumping in.

Then again, as more than one person has found to their detriment, trying to "time the market" can be a risky bet.

So, really, it again comes down to "Was the price I paid worth it".  If so, I truly don't care if someone else gets it cheaper, beyond some sort of academic concern.  I got what I paid for.  That should be enough.

Quoting BuckGodot, reply 4

The complaint that arises when games go on sale has never and will never make sense to me beyond a small amount of an intellectual level.  Everything (even the uber strict priceguided Apple products) will go on sale at some point in its life cycle.  Often times it happens during development cycle.

The only questions that should be pertinent are:  

Was the game worth the price when I bought it?

and

Did I get enough enjoyment from the game during the time I had it?

If the answer to those two questions are "YES", then, frankly, it doesn't matter if someone else got it cheaper (or more expensive for that matter) at a later point.  It truly doesn't.  It really only matters if the goal is to "win" at the game of paying the least amount possible, ever.  But even then, the question of enjoyment from the last eight months (or whatever) comes in to play.

Did the game give you enjoyment?  If so, then it shouldn't matter if others can buy it cheaper later on.  Because while they may get it cheaper now they didn't get the months of enjoyment that you had the opportunity to have.  Cost/benefit equation in a nutshell.

Now if you didn't get any enjoyment (or not enough) during the development cycle, then fair does.  But, then the adage of, "You paid yer monies, you took yer chances" comes into play.  Buying a Early Release and not using the access that the Early Release gives one seems a little self-defeating.  Or at the least, one should realize that games are going to be cheaper at various points, and one should wait until one feels comfortable jumping in.

Then again, as more than one person has found to their detriment, trying to "time the market" can be a risky bet.

So, really, it again comes down to "Was the price I paid worth it".  If so, I truly don't care if someone else gets it cheaper, beyond some sort of academic concern.  I got what I paid for.  That should be enough.

^^^ This person gets it. I paid $100.00 for Alpha and the access to it. I have not and still do not regret it at all. I am actually very happy that the game is on sale (and) at the price it is. More visibility, more sales. More sales means Paul gets to stay employed longer and keep his promise to me (the founder) of developing DLC, expacs and content for me to enjoy. 

Seriously as I posted elsewhere the nerd rage on a game going on sale after you paid full price is enjoyment all in itself. I sell plants via my company I administer to and when one sale ends and anther begins I have no end of calls clamoring to get that old sale price still (or) honor the new sale when they bought last week. 

Nobody paid $100 for GalCiv 3, by the way (that package contains much more than that; which is why I bought it), and it hasn't actually started its life-cycle. It's not born yet.

So, I paid extra money for the privilege of finding bug and errors? Good to know. 

Ahh that's a kick in the teeth I just bought the game on Sunday. 

You paid extra money for the privilege of access to both Alpha and Beta and you also get the game and all its expansions and dlc. And yes it was 99.99 when the Founders Edition was up for sale. 

Let's think about some of the changes in game development, because that is really at the center of what I am talking about.

Prior to GalCiv III, Stardock would offer a pre-order discount and give some bonus or early access to those who were early adopters. There was a benefit to the purchaser more than just the enjoyment of the game. At no point prior to release was the game available at a lower price. That is the way Stardock operated.

With GalCiv III, and Steam early access. this is no longer true. Now Stardock has disencentivized me from purchasing a game. The benefit is not there for me. The game is available to others who have early access and got a cheaper price. My benefits for pre-ordering are gone.

Additionally, it is at the very least misleading to market the last chance to get a product at a discount prior to release and then provide larger discounts prior to release. That is my biggest issue and it is valid.

I understand sales. Elemental was cheaper months after release than what I paid for it. I don't care. I got a discount and benefit of 2 expansions for pre-ordering. I would not have a complaint if a product goes on sale or clearance after release. This is not a complaint about a game going on sale, but really an issue I have with the marketing of what discounts would be available prior to release.

Look at this timeline:

1. Stardock heavily markets to its fan base that pre-order discounts are available through a specific time (in this case March 2, 2014). There are posts describing a deadline for the pre-order discount and stating "Last chance"

2. The game is available for Steam through Early Access program.

3. GalCiv III is 50% off on two different occasions. Thus contradicting the deadline for pre-ordering at a discount.

4. GalCiv III will be released at a date TBD

5. The game will go on sale. At such time my complaint is not valid and the points about all games go on sale are valid.

Steam early access has changed how game software is developed. Obviously Stardock no longer thinks it needs to provide the benefits that made it worthwhile for me to pre-order the game. I don't feel the need to "support" Stardock without a benefit to me. That's called charity and I choose to help those who are less fortunate, not software developers.

I understand that many people (maybe even most) will say that their enjoyment of the game is enough. I don't fall into this camp. I understand your position and I hope you might be able to see mine.

My central point remains:  You got to play the game whilst others didn't.  If one doesn't like playing games in an unfinished state, don't buy Early Access.  Trust me, Stardock will be more than willing to take your cash when it goes live.  

So, yes, one might have paid more at some point during the alpha/beta than others.  That point is unarguable.  I fully admit it and respect it.  Likewise, you still got to play the game and help shape development during that time while the people waiting for sales didn't and won't be able to.  That point is also unarguable.

If that isn't enough, again, fair does.  But at the same time I am fairly certain they never pledged that the game would never go on sale during the Early Access period.  If you don't like that Stardock does that, then by all means factor that in to future decisions. I won't argue against anyone who doesn't like that in principle.

Still... Still, you got to play the game, albeit unfinished, when others couldn't.  If the risk of paying more at some point isn't worth that extra time you got playing the game/helping shape development?  Well, don't buy it early next time unless it is on sale.

I say that not to be flippant, but to simply state a simple point:  Don't buy anything unless the price is worth it to you at that time.

We both definitely agree about not buying something early again. 

Think of it this way:

If I would have purchased the game on Steam through Early Access and the game went on sale later, even during early access, I would have no complaint.

However those are not the facts.

I purchased the game because Stardock told me my last chance to pre-order a game (i.e. purchase the game before release) at a discount was March 2, 2014. My last chance to purchase the game was not March 2, 2014. The email was incorrect. This is my issue.

My issue isn't the sale. It's telling me that my last opportunity to buy the game at a discount prior to release was nearly one year ago.

I understand how something can annoy your sense of principles.  Personally I don't really care on this particular topic; I actually wish I had found out about the founders thing early enough to pay my 100 bucks (I paid the $45 ish price).  But I do understand how and why the pricing changes could annoy some people, maybe make them feel a bit betrayed so to speak.  However I also know that complaining about stuff like this on a message board rarely ever accomplishes much of anything.  The best thing to do is just cancel your subscription and move on to the next thing.  Of course in this case there is no subscription to cancel, you have already paid your money for the completed product (once it is completed and released that is).  So you could refrain from buying any more Stardock products in the future I suppose, if you feel that offended.  But you might as well go ahead and get whatever enjoyment you can out of this game, since you have already invested all the money into it you will ever have to.

This is pretty offensive to the fans. There should be a rebate. Standard business practice.

Well, it would depend on the exact wording of the email, I suppose (were they talking about the current deal, for instance, or were they talking about forever and ever and ever at a certain price).  I might even still have it buried in my inbox somewhere.  I can't say I care enough to check though.

This however:

is completely inaccurate.  It isn't a "standard business practice" to offer rebates to those who bought earlier at a higher price.  Some companies might (and do), others don't, especially the smaller outfits.  Sure some companies might offer a rebate or discount if the purchase was within a week or so (price protection, as its known).  But months after the fact?  Not really.

To put it another way, if I go to the grocery store to buy a six pack of cokes, I can't honestly be pissed off if it goes on sale the next day.

So me?  Not offended in the slightest.  But I suspect people already gathered that. :p

BuckGodot nailed it succinctly. 

The value is what you place on it.

Stardock is under no restriction to (not) 'give away' the game if they wanted to. Hell put it on sale and get more Betas in!

All of us Alphas had the privilege to play and see the game WAY before anyone did. This alone for me was well worth the 99.99 price tag. I also get the game throughout Beta and I get Gold release. Then if there are other DLC or Expacs I get those as well. 

Granted I paid way more than all of you except other Alphas. If you bought the game at 45.00 and are mad about not getting it at the lower price I think you will have more disappointments in life further ahead. This is really not a big deal ...at all......

I make an analogy to being upset at having to sit through a bad movie, getting up leaving 1/2 way through, THEN coming back next day and asking for your money back. Its silly. 

It was your last chance to pre-order.  You can't pre-order something that is already available.  Yes, the "release" of 1.0 is later this year, but buying the game now (or at any point after its march 2014 early access release) is not a pre-order, it is a purchase.  Obviously you had a different interpretation of the term "pre-order" but that's no reason to be upset with Stardock.  Sales are often good for the game, the community, the developers.  At no point was it suggested that GC3 would not have any Steam sales.

I also wonder if the length of the alpha/beta might be in play here.  As far as I know (and I don't follow SD products nearly enough to really say), they've never had a paid early access that has lasted as long as this one.  Sorcerer King, for instance, will be, what, six months?  Eight?  They didn't even take orders for it until it launched into beta, IIRC.

So perhaps part of the problem (if one really looks at it as a problem) is the fact that this will be in early access for well over a year, and available for purchase for something like a year and a half.

That long of a time frame is just asking for troubles when it comes to (allegedly promising) not having a sale.  Hell, and now I'm just speculating here, maybe they didn't think they would have any discount sales at all during that now 14 month window (March 14 - May 15), but circumstances changed along the way.  Instead of presuming malice (or should I say Malevolence :p), if any one is, it simply could just be bad planning or lack of foresight on the part of SD.

Now being the 'victim' of bad planning isn't fun. And one can certainly factor it in to future purchasing decisions.  But, still, I wouldn't presume bad faith on the part of SD here.

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Mind, that's taking the complaints in this thread as read.  I don't share them, I will remind.

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EDIT:  Turkwise brings up a great point about the difference between "pre-ordering" and "purchasing". It might be a fine distinction to some, especially when it comes to early access, but it still is a disticntion.  That's why I mentioned the exact wording of emails.  Now perhaps SD could make things clearer in the future (if only to stave off these kind of complaints).  But, then again, it is not many companies who will say in an email as a game approaches the end of the pre-ordering stage "Hey this is the last chance to pre-order something at this price.  But  don't worry, if you don't like our current price it'll be on sale in about four months when it has been available for purchase for a while."

Larsenex, your analogy is not quite accurate. But let me see if I can adapt it to the facts of this situation.

The movie theater advertises an early showing of a movie to members of its rewards program. They will show the movie one month prior to release for a cost of $10 and you must have a reservation before 2/28. On the night of the showing in March, there is a big sign advertising the early showing with tickets at $5 available to everyone. You immediately bring this to the attention of the manager.

This example is a better comparison to my situation.

I was curious about exactly what was said that had you upset, so I found the post:

This was and is completely accurate.  Purchasing GalCiv 3 now is not exactly the same as purchasing the Founders Edition when it was available, although at this point there is no difference between regular buyers and Founders, other than the forum badge, because, as the FAQ states, the founder program has concluded.

No better way to piss off all but your most delusional and fanatical fans than to make them pay a hefty 100% premium.

I'm sorry, I'm a little unclear here.  Has Stardock announced that that the price of GC III has been reduced permanently?  If not then when this sale is over it will be back to the same price it was before.

NOTE:  I hardly consider myself one of their "most delusional and fanatical" fans, and I'm not pissed off.  So I tend to think you might not be speaking for everyone here.

We were marketed a special preorder price.

This is a preorder price.

Why are there two preorder programs for the same product at radically different dollar prices?

Sounds like a class action lawsuit if people weren't so blind to business law.

Yeah, you try that. I'm sure you'd get real far with it. :p

PS:  You know this went on sale in December for a week or two, right?

Founders edition badge, alpha,  beta access,  game,  expansions,  and dlc's. For $99.

Beta access does it include game. For $45. This is probably $25 sale price.

These are not the same offers. The founder's rlite has not gone on sale. This is not grounds for fraud. Neither would be selling the game afterbits almost done.

I know i have everything, but because of the future. I like sales i like to save money. Please keep them in case i buy another game. Just remember change thr package for sales.Here's an idea add a few mods instead. 

The "Future Expansions and DLC Included in $100 Price" is what got me hooked, like Larsenex. I would be pretty pissed off if the post-Founders offers/Steam sales also included those pre-paid but I'm basically 100% sure that the pre-purchase of improvements offer is off the table. Does anyone have evidence to the contrary?