FFA strategy against AIs with Enhanced 4X mod

Right, so I've been playing the game for a little while now, I like long games, such as fighting 6 AIs and having to smash through star bases, titans and huge fleets. However, it doesn't matter if I have the most territory, the best economy, firepower or whatever, the AI always comes up with something and manages to destroy  my way larger and more varied fleets. I usually play an all out game on medium large maps, with 6 AIs and myself. I started with the Advent Rebels, I like them, I played with them for a while but after beating a few games I decided to switch to TEC Loyalist, I don't think I have the hang of it with either one, nonetheless, I started to have some success by being aggressive with the Advent, or doing stuff like placing illuminators in the middle of the enemy fleet, plus the Advent Rebel titan was awesome. 

I usually start games by trying to take out one of the enemies on the left or the right side of my starting point. I like to take choke points, and if I understood right these are the planets which have like five access points but are usually the only point of entry into other planets or what not. It works for the most part, the AI smashes itself against my star bases. However, last time they came with a Coronata, and huge amount of capital ships, a Progenitor in that bunch, I focused fire on the progenitor and it did nothing, they destroyed my fleet, the star base along with my capital ships and my Ankylon. Every time I go on the offensive, the blow me apart with a small fleet, I outnumber them, but they still blow me away and even if I destroyed their fleet, they come back and sent huge fleets everywhere. I know numbers are useless if they have 

What are they doing to get fleets out so fast? What is the general strategy with long games? I like long games, but when they drag on too long sometimes the AIs just become unbeatable, especially when they start throwing titans at me like nothing. Any help is appreciated. 

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Reply #1 Top

Generally, if you find yourself taking heavy casualties to a numerically inferior fleet, the enemy probably has an Area of Effect (AoE) damage ability you are not countering. The Marza's missile barrage is a classic example; if you do not stop it with an ion bolt or detonate antimatter, it can deal over 3000 damage to every ship in your fleet, I.e. killing all your frigates. Take the time to learn which ships to watch out for so you can counter them appropriately.

So did you manage to win with the Advent? One thing about the TEC is that while the TEC economy becomes amazing late game, the TEC units overall do not get as powerful as the Advent and Vasari ones late game. The TEC loyalists are really only geared to win a battle of attrition, where they can use their superior economics to fund double starbase defenses to wear down the enemy while striking them with Novalith cannons, which will hurt the enemy economy hard. All else being equal on the offensive and maybe even while defending you will lose to Advent and Vasari late game fleets, so you need to get used to using your massive economy to replace your losses. They basically fight like Russians with America's trade and industrial power.

Since you're playing E4X, make sure you get ship upgrade tech so you can give your Ankylon the shield draining beams. The constant shield healing will help it a lot and will improve its survivieability even if it runs out of antimatter.

What level AIs are you playing with? On the higher difficulty levels the AI does get economic bonuses, so it may well be building fleets faster than you can. Still, since you are a human with superior management skills (hopefully), it is more than possible to beat even unfair AI in a war of production. On the higher (purple) difficulties, it is almost impossible to out play them normally, you have to exploit units the AI does not handle very well like starbases and tons of bomber hit and run attacks to inflict as much free casualties as possible to even the odds, and slowly wear them out.

 

Reply #2 Top

I won a few times with the advent but generally, those games were easier or they felt like that anyway. Anyway, I figured out one of the best things to do to destroy enemy fleets with the advent was to place my illuminators in the middle of their fleet. They kept falling back and moving away, and while sometimes the enemy had more ships, my ships outlasted theirs. I usually went with Illuminators, Drone Hosts, the rebel titan, a progenitor, a radiance battleship, a carrier and a some guardians. I used the progenitor to restore shields and with malice along with the titan's AoE which really did a lot of damage to the enemies' fleets, especially when it was against TEC AIs. From what I recall, those three capital ships are a good combo, I haven't tried the others though, I used the radiance whenever the AI decided to show up with their caps, especially if they came creeping around with progenitor or if they came with their titans. As for titans, I found it simple to beat some of them, others not so much, for instance the ragnarov is easy to maneuver against, well the low level ragnarov an AI threw at me was anyway, I just flanked it and divided my fleet so it couldn't use its AoE against everything. 

I haven't really used Destra Cruisers, Defense Vessels or Dominas a lot, I think all ships probably have their purpose in this game, but I'm not entirely sure how to use these in particular. I also keep seeing people who say they're not worth it to build those ships. 

Fighting the Vasari was another story though, especially when they showed up with their titans, I still haven't quite figured out how to fight them properly, as Advent or TEC. Usually I just stuck to my Star Base, and let them destroy themselves, but whenever I tried to get them on the offensive it was really difficult, especially with their moving star bases. From what I found out the best way to deal with star bases is to use bomber spam, however, my issue occurs when it takes too long and the enemy shows up with one of their huge fleets. 

I'm still playing with normal AI, I do use the Enhanced AI module from the mod though. Nonetheless, if it isn't huge fleets, then its culture or something else. For instance in one game I took a choke point which blocked two AIs from getting any further, they teamed up on me, and even then they couldn't get past my star base, but then the Advent AI started upgrading its culture and then I started to lose allegiance little by little, so I was forced to attack its planets, to destroy their culture centers, it took too much time, and even with all the upgrades for TEC culture I still couldn't push back their culture. How would I go about stopping that? Eventually there's a point in which I won't be able to beat the Advent with culture, since they're like strongest with that and all. 

I also use the module that disables super weapons, I thought using them wouldn't be as fun so I don't have novaliths, or deliverance engines. 

Reply #3 Top

Quoting ArgusMercenary, reply 2

I haven't really used Destra Cruisers, Defense Vessels or Dominas a lot, I think all ships probably have their purpose in this game, but I'm not entirely sure how to use these in particular. I also keep seeing people who say they're not worth it to build those ships. 

Destra's are pretty good heavy cruisers. Basically they are a jack of all trades ship that is good but not great against all the other combat frigates in the game, and are extremely durable to everything except bombers. However, other combat frigates are more efficient for raw DPS, though the Advent's plasma upgrades make the Destra a bit more competitive. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of bombers, they are a good general purpose ship to add to your fleet when you don't need to counter anything specific.

Defense vessel are "flak" frigates, and are a key part of the main combat "square" of Light Frigates > Flak Frigates > Corvettes > Long Range Frigates > Light Frigates etc. Basically build them when you're enemy has a lot of corvettes or strikecraft (especially fighters). They're also extremely durable for how cheap they are, but they struggle to damage anything larger than a Long Range Frigate.

Dominas are a support cruiser, and they are much better in E4X than they are in Vanilla, so some things you may read about them may not apply. They are used for both healing your ships and for disabling enemy frigates. As the Advent Rebels (Ascended Advent) in the mod, you do not have to research these ships, which gives them some interesting uses. For example, they are a huge help when taking Terran, Desert etc. planets that have a few heavy cruisers, since they can just disable the heavy cruisers while the rest of your fleet kills the weaker ships, then fight them alone. I typically build one for each capitalship/titan I have, since the healing ability you research both helps you keep them alive and prevents abilities like Ion Bolt from disabling your key ships.

Quoting ArgusMercenary, reply 2

Fighting the Vasari was another story though, especially when they showed up with their titans, I still haven't quite figured out how to fight them properly, as Advent or TEC. Usually I just stuck to my Star Base, and let them destroy themselves, but whenever I tried to get them on the offensive it was really difficult, especially with their moving star bases. From what I found out the best way to deal with star bases is to use bomber spam, however, my issue occurs when it takes too long and the enemy shows up with one of their huge fleets. 

The Vasari have an inherit advantage against the advent thanks to their phase missiles, which bypass shields, one of the Advent's great technological strong points. Some research, pacts and hero units can help with this weakness a little bit, but its definitely an uphill fight.

The good thing about the Vasari starbases is that they will move out of range of repair bays and other defensive structures, allowing you to engage them alone. Of course taking out an enemy fleet WITH a starbase is a much more difficult proposition. You either need to provoke the AI into attacking you (retreat your fleet from the front line, wait for them to attack your now vulnerable planet, warp right back in) so you can destroy the fleet, or simply greatly outgun the enemy.

Quoting ArgusMercenary, reply 2

I'm still playing with normal AI, I do use the Enhanced AI module from the mod though.

If you're struggling on normal AI, you're probably making to fairly big beginner mistakes. First, you're probably not expanding fast enough early game. Taking planets from the militia is much easier than from other players, so early on invest only in the basic research infrastructure and build up your fleet to take as many easy planets as possible (minimum you should max out your starting fleet supply quite quickly). Strongly tied to this is the strategy of double colonization - that is, building a colony capitalship to expand in one direction, while frigates and a colony frigates expand in another.

The other mistake many beginning players make is either not building a big enough fleet or building two many heavy cruisers. A few dozen frigates is not a big fleet in Sins. While one must be careful to not expand their fleet size too quickly do to the permanent economic cost, at the same time when you max out your existing fleet and you're still struggling, never be afraid to expand it. A good economy is no good to you if you let your enemy destroy it.

Alternatively, a fleet ratio of 50% capitalships to 50% frigates is only acceptable at the beginning of the game. For their fleet supply, capitalships must be very high level to match the efficiency of frigates in basic stats. The main reason you should build them is for their special abilities, not to increase your fleets damage output etc. Further, the more capitalships you have, the slower they and your titan will level up, since all experience earned is split. While it doesn't sound like you're doing this, if you have multiple Radiance's etc. per fleet, just keep in mind that capitalship quality is usually better than quantity. Level 10 capitalships do not suffer from any of these issues, so feel free to build more once some of them start hitting lvl 10 as well.

Quoting ArgusMercenary, reply 2

For instance in one game I took a choke point which blocked two AIs from getting any further, they teamed up on me, and even then they couldn't get past my star base, but then the Advent AI started upgrading its culture and then I started to lose allegiance little by little, so I was forced to attack its planets, to destroy their culture centers, it took too much time, and even with all the upgrades for TEC culture I still couldn't push back their culture. How would I go about stopping that?

Culture is more powerful in E4X, especially for the Advent Loyalists (Orthodox). Occasionally I'll see the AI build 5 or more culture centers on one world, in this case the usual 1 culture center for every few planets won't be good enough. You either have to destroy them quickly, build more culture centers yourself, or both. Also capitalships and titans can repel enemy culture in friendly territory, so if you have some to spare station them on the culture front lines.

Quoting ArgusMercenary, reply 2

I also use the module that disables super weapons, I thought using them wouldn't be as fun so I don't have novaliths, or deliverance engines.

Well, playing as TEC Loyalists without superweapons is going to be an immensely harder task. So much of their strategy relies on it that I would recommend playing the TEC Rebels (HTS in the mod) instead.

Reply #4 Top

These are some interesting ideas, I guess I might as well switch on the super weapons then. I just played a game, I controlled most of the map and I still got blown away. I held my territory for a long while but the Vasari AI kept throwing immense fleets my way, my ally was crap, and he was getting destroyed. So I had to fight both AIs, the TEC and the Vasari, plus the bastards also teamed up on me. I managed to take one of the TEC's planets, but no matter how many ships I sent, I couldn't even destroy many of his. I did make a mistake and sent too many caps. I did follow your advice on attrition with the TEC, and it worked but the games take too long, I mean, it took me forever just to take one planet, and even then the AI keeps pumping fleets like if they hadn't lost any money. Even where they were down to 4 planets, and I had my huge economy to sustain the war. 

I'm really not very familiar to RTS games though, the only other RTS game that I've played is Starcraft and only SP, cause I don't like MP rush stuff. This is nothing like starcraft however, every unit here has a purpose, and using the synergy between them is key or that's what I feel anyway.