YOR, experienced impression... a micromanager's dream!

from GalCiv3 Forums

after fixing the yor factory upgrade loop bug, I've been playing them more  and more with each game learning new things.  I've found a few ways that YOR can expand to really take advantage of their differences.  Truth be told, "they are awesome!" & tons of fun.  Here are the main strategies I've found that work well

  • The obvious... Play them similar to other races with a slow start, upgrade the power matrix & go on a roller coaster of exponential exploration, population growth,  new planet claiming with colony ships from multiple colonies loaded with a couple mil like meatbag style colonization.
    • This has some serious penalties because your research is hit so badly & your military manufacturing is so busy everywhere that the diplomacy penalty is likely to get you attacked fast!
  • The improved obvious... send a couple mil out on each colony ship from a couple worlds & plant a factory or two on planetfall  each time.  repeat until population is hurting & make some more yor while those new colonies develop
    • It works better & you can hope to keep up better than the previous method.
  • Understand that the yor are not fragile bags of meat & use that!
    • return that initial 2.5 mil yor colonists floating in space to iconia, eject the colony ship with a mere .5 mil on it.  use the scout & colony ship to start manually scouting stars while the survey module is set to harvest anomalies.
    • Build about 50/50 manufacturing & research yor on iconia while your starbase is building a construtor & ships scouting.   Plant the colony ship somewhere decent if you haven't already
    • Build a starbase at the edge of your range if you haven't found any decent planets (note: almost any planet is decent!)
    • Hopefully iconia is mostly built up by now & you can set the governing slider back to normal while building more yor up to whatever your cap is Go back & a couple lines, & make sure you have the small hull & maybe a miniaturization tech or two.
    • design yourself a self constructing colony module on a small hull with a life support or two.  
    • Crank out 3-4 (you probably don't have tourism income yet & will need to be careful not to go broke by spreading too fast.
    • Send out those ships with ~.5 mil yor each & land them almost anywhere
    • set the slider to 100% manufacturing & build yor on that planet... Ignore it until you have around 8-10mil yor
      • Morale seems to do nothing in 0.61, but after 8-10 mil on almost any planet the morale starts to drop a bit the further you go
    • Do the normal stuff with iconia, your ships, research, etc
    • repeat as fast as you can crank out colony probes from iconia
    • Once your new colonies grow to  8-10ish mil yor, remove the growth & build the planets ~60/40 research/manufacturing
    • dot your planets with economic starbases & research up tourism if you haven't already
    • Don't forget to research weapons and crank out something pointy from time to time between colonization probes or the ai will look at your -2 diplomacy & splat you 

There is such a wonderful degree of up close micromanagement all over that meatbags simply cannot keep up.  .  In a huge galaxy with StarSpread2, common stars/planets  abundant habitable, & all races represented with one ally each (irridium was my(yor's) team ally at the start. By about turn 100-120ish I had dozens of worlds either built or building, about 150 credits/turn income, around 130mil population, on and on.  Without using starbases to spread, my borders well pretty much 1-2 star systems from  every other race's

 

I'm sure that some tweaks will be needed once the ai is unshackled & galaxies scale up, but they are amazing

19,766 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

This is great news! I had seen the files linked separately that needed bug fixing, but do you have a copy of all of them together?


Nevermind I saw your link :), sorry it is early and I am full of egg nog heh

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Took me A minute to get what you were asking.  I think you are asking about the yor factory upgrade bug fix & ideology lock hackishfix that sidesteps it?  Those are the only two outright "fixes", everything else has been experimental tweaking of things like research speed & such so not "fixes" perse. Changing starspread from 0 to 2-3ish(higher=even closer)is a preference thing(I like 2:) where people can find their own happy points. I'm not  positive what exactly you are asking though?

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Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Tetrasodium, reply 2

Took me A minute to get what you were asking.  I think you are asking about the yor factory upgrade bug fix & ideology lock hackishfix that sidesteps it?  Those are the only two outright "fixes", everything else has been experimental tweaking of things like research speed & such so not "fixes" perse. Changing starspread from 0 to 2-3ish(higher=even closer)is a preference thing(I like 2:) where people can find their own happy points. I'm not  positive what exactly you are asking though?


Ah I see so most of it was things you tweaked yourself, how would you tweak them under the normal settings if you had access to their behavior/statistics. Anything else in the core files or settings, that we cannot see directly as feedback? It sounds like you know them inside out is all.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I played the Yor a bit and right now I feel the high granularity of their population growth breaks the experience.  You only need 1 hammer to grow 0.2 pop a turn constantly. That is a pretty good investment return. By contrast, to get to +0.4 pop a turn you need to pump up quite a bit of factory output.  As a result I never want tu put more than 1 hammer on pop growth.

I feel that if the hammer/growth ratio was more linear I would feel much more inclind to play them.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I started mine on a serious late-game arc, snatching up colonies in the initial land grab and then alternating between construction of improvements and Assembly and then more improvements.

Had the usual diplomatic problems that you see with the Yor getting ganged up on, but... industrial output and research went on such a ridiculous trajectory that nobody had much to say about it by around Turn 200. The Altarians and Terrans were assimilated, and we can finally rule in relative peace and quiet.

It's a nice combination of economics and military strategy into a single playthrough.

 

1010/1010 (10/10) Would Definitely Assimilate Again

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 4

I played the Yor a bit and right now I feel the high granularity of their population growth breaks the experience.  You only need 1 hammer to grow 0.2 pop a turn constantly. That is a pretty good investment return. By contrast, to get to +0.4 pop a turn you need to pump up quite a bit of factory output.  As a result I never want t put more than 1 hammer on pop growth.

I feel that if the hammer/growth ratio was more linear I would feel much more inclind to play them.
[/quote]

Interesting, I did not know that  was the break even point & just went with either 100% or 50/50 manufacturing/research

Code
  1. <PlanetaryProject>
  3. <InternalName>ProjectAssembly</InternalName>
  4. <DisplayName>PROJECT_ASSEMBLY</DisplayName>
  5. <ShortDescription>PROJECT_ASSEMBLY_DESCRIPTION</ShortDescription>
  6. <Icon>GC3_Colonization_Icon.png</Icon>
  7. <ManufacturingPerBonus>10</ManufacturingPerBonus>
  8. <Bonus>
  9. <EffectType>GrowthYor</EffectType>
  10. <Target>
  11. <TargetType>Colony</TargetType>
  12. </Target>
  13. <BonusType>Flat</BonusType>
  14. <Value>0.2</Value>
  15. </Bonus>
  16. <Prerequ>
  17. <RaceTrait>
  18. <Option>SyntheticLife</Option>
  19. </RaceTrait>
  20. </Prerequ>
  21. </PlanetaryProject>

I had not thought to actually see where it fell, but in all honesty, like Jorrrrrn also saw, yor that last till turn 120-200ish in me experience suddenly slide from "not too far from the biological linear for various reasons" to freaking logarithmic/exponential in all things, but I've seen pop growth projects under non-synthetic life race tech trees so it might just be a case of never being forced to rely on it *shrug*.  If making the 0.2 go higher were easy it would take away the micromanaging potential handicap & make things too easy 

Quoting Jorrrrrn, reply 5

I started mine on a serious late-game arc, snatching up colonies in the initial land grab and then alternating between construction of improvements and Assembly and then more improvements.

Had the usual diplomatic problems that you see with the Yor getting ganged up on, but... industrial output and research went on such a ridiculous trajectory that nobody had much to say about it by around Turn 200. The Altarians and Terrans were assimilated, and we can finally rule in relative peace and quiet.

It's a nice combination of economics and military strategy into a single playthrough.

 

1010/1010 (10/10) Would Definitely Assimilate Again

I've done a number of games as yor & it generally seems that around turn 100-150ish (depending on turn <100 distractions) that yor find their stride... and oh god is it a stride when bolstered by tourism.  Granted, there isn't much non-synthetics can do to match it in some ways, but I think that yor (or a yor-like minor race) have the potential to keep long games in very large galaxies away from that "I know how this will end" stagnation.  

One of the things that strikes me most is just how hard (as far as I can tell)it is to stab tourism income.  Every other income source has some diplomatic method of attacking it to varying degrees while tourism's foil is attacking planets to kill.  For reasons already stated, I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing & presume (I freaking hope!)espionage will gave some planetary pop stabbies in its quiver.

I think one of the most interesting factors in the makeup of the yor's quiver is the fact that they are superficially so badly suited for a diplomatic/influence victory race & just average(?) for military going by the bonus's alone that you pretty much get forced to use very heavy amounts of it all and can't really aim towards any one of them for the first 100+ turns ;).

On the plus side, I suspect that much of anything done to affect that turn 100-200+ rocketship might make the first 50-100 turns an almost uncrossable rubicon.  with the limited AI right now, that might change later.

 

Quoting Saareth, reply 3


Quoting Tetrasodium,
reply 2

Took me A minute to get what you were asking.  I think you are asking about the yor factory upgrade bug fix & ideology lock hackishfix that sidesteps it?  Those are the only two outright "fixes", everything else has been experimental tweaking of things like research speed & such so not "fixes" perse. Changing starspread from 0 to 2-3ish(higher=even closer)is a preference thing(I like 2:) where people can find their own happy points. I'm not  positive what exactly you are asking though?



Ah I see so most of it was things you tweaked yourself, how would you tweak them under the normal settings if you had access to their behavior/statistics. Anything else in the core files or settings, that we cannot see directly as feedback? It sounds like you know them inside out is all.

I'll start another thread later on this :)

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Tetrasodium, reply 6


 



I've done a number of games as yor & it generally seems that around turn 100-150ish (depending on turn <100 distractions) that yor find their stride... and oh god is it a stride when bolstered by tourism.  Granted, there isn't much non-synthetics can do to match it in some ways, but I think that yor (or a yor-like minor race) have the potential to keep long games in very large galaxies away from that "I know how this will end" stagnation.  

One of the things that strikes me most is just how hard (as far as I can tell)it is to stab tourism income.  Every other income source has some diplomatic method of attacking it to varying degrees while tourism's foil is attacking planets to kill.  For reasons already stated, I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing & presume (I freaking hope!)espionage will gave some planetary pop stabbies in its quiver.

I think one of the most interesting factors in the makeup of the yor's quiver is the fact that they are superficially so badly suited for a diplomatic/influence victory race & just average(?) for military going by the bonus's alone that you pretty much get forced to use very heavy amounts of it all and can't really aim towards any one of them for the first 100+ turns ;) .

On the plus side, I suspect that much of anything done to affect that turn 100-200+ rocketship might make the first 50-100 turns an almost uncrossable rubicon.  with the limited AI right now, that might change later.

 

 

The beginning of the game was absolutely brutal... I gave myself an early boost to Diplomacy to counter the racial disadvantage and avoid being on the bottom of an intergalactic dogpile, but then I failed to monitor my declining relations with my neighbors and things got carried away. Altarians and Terrans had gotten the best deals on starting position and expanded rapidly over a vast space, and so we wound up on each other's doorsteps pretty quickly. That's when the mayhem began.

The Altarian war machine was so relentless that I got pinned down by a 100% blockade--at least 30 turns where I couldn't field a single ship without a letter from the Altarian embassy. Honestly, I wonder how AI sight range is currently implemented, because they seemed to have a sixth sense for whenever I built a shipyard and had someone over to crush it within 1-2 turns every time. I had to tolerate the blockade for many, many turns while I focused on tech advantage and domestic production; the only way I broke out again was by purchasing a handful of Krynn ships and sending a merc fleet to cover a lone shipyard at Iconia which I used as a beachhead...

... And then my fortunes changed. I designed some custom ships which were not only very advanced but also specifically designed to counter the Altarian loadouts, and I started spitting them out at an incredible pace. Locked down Iconia, sent advance fleets to secure construction of two more shipyards, and at around that point I became an unstoppable synthetic wrecking ball. It took very little effort to knock the Terrans down from 100+ ships to under 20 and have them pleading for a treaty, and then so went the Altarians. Had fleets of interceptors canvassing my territory that could wipe out comparable Altarian fleets with maybe a 1-in-10 chance of even taking damage from an engagement.

 

So, yes, your analogy is pretty close to my experience. The initial phases of the game were very daunting and there was almost a temptation to restart and try a new strategy... But when we finally got into our groove and stepped on the gas pedal, the shift in the balance of power was sudden, profound, and irreversible. No one came close to presenting even a minor threat to us after that, and I don't see how they ever could.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I like the yor quite a lot, but I feel there's something missing. I'm assuming it just wasn't put in yet, but shouldn't they have some unique relationship with dead worlds? Now obviously extreme world colonization hasn't been added in, but I find the limitations of what buildings they have access to, and the lack of late tier terraforming to be a severe downer for me. Overall, I like them, but not being able to full utilize a planet and the limitations of their pop cap per planet makes them somewhat less appealing. If they had some exclusive ability to utilize dead worlds in a way that the other factions couldn't, that would be very interesting, but atm, against races with population limits far exceeding Yor capacities and growth rates, the United Planets aspect becomes very difficult to control. Granted that is one thing that has also yet to be added in, opting out of the UP, which tends to favor other races anyway.

 

Overall though, not many complaints. Beyond what I've stated, I found the existence of approval ratings for them to be somewhat odd. What need do the yor have for entertainment, and goods & services? They exist with purpose do they not? Working towards the aim of genocide is the very fulfillment of their existence and yet they suffer approval issues as the population grows and require the above mentioned to stabilize it. I would think they'd be beyond such things but maybe im just over thinking it and its just a piece thats intended to be put in, that just isn't in at this time. However to me it is absurd, almost as absurd as tourism being a stat that the Yor can build up just like any other faction. (Although I could hardly see the advertising campaign for touring the Yor controlled worlds being successful considering you'd likely be killed or hunted relentlessly before ever setting foot on a planet) With that in mind, more needs to be done to set the Yor apart. They're advantageous with their relations with others, and only so long as it serves their purposes, but thats the same as saying I'll kill you later when its convenient. Although Im curious to see if tourism is only a factor UP members can exploit.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting suko258, reply 8



Overall though, not many complaints. Beyond what I've stated, I found the existence of approval ratings for them to be somewhat odd. What need do the yor have for entertainment, and goods & services? They exist with purpose do they not? Working towards the aim of genocide is the very fulfillment of their existence and yet they suffer approval issues as the population grows and require the above mentioned to stabilize it. I would think they'd be beyond such things but maybe im just over thinking it and its just a piece thats intended to be put in, that just isn't in at this time. However to me it is absurd, almost as absurd as tourism being a stat that the Yor can build up just like any other faction. (Although I could hardly see the advertising campaign for touring the Yor controlled worlds being successful considering you'd likely be killed or hunted relentlessly before ever setting foot on a planet) With that in mind, more needs to be done to set the Yor apart. They're advantageous with their relations with others, and only so long as it serves their purposes, but thats the same as saying I'll kill you later when its convenient. Although Im curious to see if tourism is only a factor UP members can exploit.


Do the yor have a collective or individual intelligence? 


If it's individual then it makes sense for approval to be in, as some other yor might think he can do a better (more efficient) job than you.


As for tourism, a human might never want to go, but would a drengin want to visit the yors museum of collected horrors, maybe :) A Yor AI would capitalize on other races need for tourism and new experiences, and make credits sure, while also learning about their species up close. Having said that I think you'd get several people here on earth signing up to see alien life no matter the risk involved, or their ideology.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting markmid, reply 9

Do the yor have a collective or individual intelligence? 

From the databanks:

Since they were last seen, the Yor have begun to evolve from being a collection of individual sentient beings into a single super-organism. Thus they are now referred to as the Yor Singularity rather than their old moniker of the Yor Collective.

So they had individual intelligence in CG2 and are currently in the process of integrating themselves into a collective intelligence.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


but I find the limitations of what buildings they have access to, and the lack of late tier terraforming to be a severe downer for me. Overall, I like them, but not being able to full utilize a planet and the limitations of their pop cap per planet makes them somewhat less appealing.

the late tier terraforming is more of an oversight then a glitch you can use it but you need to get at least one level of extreme world terraforming which is disabled

i modded it out and it works fine now

as for the population cap since beta 3 anything over 50 pop is a waste while it is possible to make use of values higher then 50 usually the bonus recieved from any other building would be significantly higher. this means that when the yor get to late game with a 48 pop on any world without the 3-5 buildings any other race would require they do have a significant advantage 


I found the existence of approval ratings for them to be somewhat odd. What need do the yor have for entertainment, and goods & services? They exist with purpose do they not? Working towards the aim of genocide is the very fulfillment of their existence and yet they suffer approval issues as the population grows

while some of the approval bonus's i have encountered do seem odd (funny tasting food) i do still see the yor as more individual and would then have a sense of self; in such a case they might have goods and services that could include upgraded materials for body parts, higher quality components, tune up plans, buff and polish, overclocking, battery backups in case of an extended power failure you don't die, 

 

i believe my first contact with the iridium went something like

Iridium :greetings could we interest you with an oil bath or how about a buff and polish

Yor :actually a selection of oils would be nice