I am so sorry. But I am not even sure why this game has to exist at this point.

Plus the game impressions.

I really do not understand the whole strategy of releasing another new Elemental game release.

 

Yes, original Elemental was underwhelming. But a lot had improved on FE, and with LH, the game was getting really, really great with all of the features and depth. Only problem was lack of polish in general, which really hurts the game's reputation.

 

And you guys decided to throw the all of the works.... I really do not understand this decision. I can already see two massive disadvantages.

 

1.) It is obvious, as a small company, you guys cannot do this from stretch. There are a lot of recycled materials present (I am not sure how would change in final version) which devalues the game itself.

2.) With completely new game mechanics, there are going to be problems. Hell, even after all of balances and patches, the mechanics of LH is not really completely solid... let alone completely new one.

 

I played the game for an hour or two, but the whole mechanic is shockingly similar to LH despite the mechanics is supposed to be very different.

I mean, I make cities. Build outposts. Grab resources. Do quests. Grow my hero and army. Clear monster lairs. Get some alliances... and crush one big foe. Only this last part is different.

Except now there is an end-game content (a big, powerful enemy), everything else is simplified with less contents. Even more limited magic choices, short hero progressions (may be changed in final game). Crafting sounds good, but I immediately miss unique weapons present in LH. LH's loot system was average to bad, but the new... well, let's be honest, this crafting system is nothing more than a tweaked loot system with more limited choices on contents of the loot. I really see no remarkable differences except the whole looting is simplified with less interesting traits on weapons. Not to mention diplomacy is even more gimped and simplified with such new settings (true PvE feeling unlike pseudo-PvP feeling from LH).

And even smaller tactical battlefield.... God, LH's 'new' closer tactical position was already worse, but the tactical map of Sorcerer King is HALF of normal tactical map of LH. I understand Frogboy does not like long tactical battles, but I believe that taste is quite opposite of what most people want (longer, more interesting tactical battle) as evident on threads like "the thing you like most" ones.

I wouldn't be less critical if this game was a sort of expansion pack, but Sorcerer King is a full 40 bucks game, and I am not so sure if this is going to fly for most of people.

The game is quite different from previous Elemental series, but the game itself still has a lot of stuffs from Elemental lore. Here is the problem:


There are people who want a improved game from a previous game without too much changes (i.e me, and some others)

There are people who want a fresh new 4X games. Especially those who got burned by the first Elemental.


Sorcerer King does not satisfy either groups for obvious reasons. I still believe a proper expansion pack of Legendary Heroes with stuffs like re-introducing dynasty and more polish with a pricetag of about 30 bucks, would had been far better business decision. Sorcerer King is really re-inventing the wheel.... except people will find out the game is still old with new clothes.


I am not sure how final game will turn out, but unless the game completely detaches from Elemental lore and has completely new unit designs (I see there are several completely new. But I also do see old ones too), people will point out the game plays pretty similar to older Elemental games.


Only positive points I can see is that the game is more stable and there is end-game content (if that works, that is). But the sacrifices and compromises for these two are far too great for my taste.

23,086 views 30 replies
Reply #1 Top

I'm going to hold off on opinions until I see the minors. I think it was a truly strange decision to release the initial beta without them in place if they're truly instrumental to the gameplay.

 

Because in some ways, I agree with OP.

Reply #2 Top

A few answers that hopefully will help:

1. The game is in the Elemental universe.  That isn't going to change.  

2. If we had done this game as an expansion to Fallen Enchantress there'd been riots. The game is just too different.  Remember, we had the same argument with War of Magic -- that Fallen Enchantress should have just been an "Expansion" to WOM. But the core game mechanics of FE are totally different from WOM the same way that SK is fundamentally different from LH in its core mechanics.

3. There are people who will want a a continuation to Fallen Enchantress / Legendary Heroes.  LH is still being updated.  I wish we had made Legendary Heroes a stand alone game (I really like the name) so that we could eventually have a Legendary Heroes II.  But it is what it is.

4. SK is about as similar to LH as LH is to Warlock or Age of Wonders 3 or Endless Legends.  4X fantasy titles will have some similarities.  

Reply #3 Top

WOM, FE and SK are all fairly unique. WOM has some features that are not available in FE. 

 

I'm hoping that some day there is a WOM II made after all the lessons learned from the original, LH, FE and SK. It's also beta. So you may see a fair amount of recycled content and place holders. 

Reply #4 Top

Howdy,

I am on the same boat as Xwolf I'll hold off on overall, hey its still early let see how it goes.  With that said with only about an hour of play I am bummed the same annoying and lame technical issues like being attacked in map mode and selecting auto combat still finishes your movement before your in combat. Pop ups happen at the same time as auto combat when attacked.  I was hoping these things would be flushed out.  I'm also hope there will be all new sound effects, because with the old one in it feels a little toooooo familiar.

I really like the art work.  Really like the auto combat for cities, A+.

Keep the train rolling guys!

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

I wish we had made Legendary Heroes a stand alone game (I really like the name) so that we could eventually have a Legendary Heroes II.

...why can't you, implied naming conventions be damned? I really dig where Sorcerer King is going, and can't wait to play the final product along with LH for some time. But should the tropes of expansion pack names really hold you back from making another, non-asymmetrical 4X in the elemental universe, and just call it Elemental II: Legendary Heroes or simply Legendary Heroes II?

Dunno, maybe there's a marketing reason I don't grasp. You'd know better than I.

Reply #6 Top

I love multi-tile cities too much to let go of LH...

That said, I really do like the logistics implementation in SK. Would love to see something similar implanted into LH on a city to city basis. This way, a giv....on second thought: See #15 in the link: https://forums.elementalgame.com/452034/page/1/

 

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

3. There are people who will want a a continuation to Fallen Enchantress / Legendary Heroes. LH is still being updated.

k6   Yes please! :)

Reply #7 Top

I think the takeaway for Stardock is that even if the design is objectively fundamentally different in terms of player/AI goals and how they affect things like balance, pacing etc, in practice players currently get an all too familiar feeling when playing. Don't forget that to a siginificant degree FE/LH effectively played as a PvE game too.

 

The things that are different in this game are mostly not in yet, like the Dungeon Master AI, minor faction alliances, magic being more magical, etc, and they should perhaps be emphasized or communicated better when they make it in the beta. For instance, why not start out immediately allied with a minor faction?

Reply #8 Top

I definitely agree that, if at all possible, the minor factions should be implemented as well as you can AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Especially since Brad made it sound as  if they're mostly done already...

Reply #9 Top

I'll try to do a let's play with the losers (aka the minors) this weekend.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 9

I'll try to do a let's play with the losers (aka the minors) this weekend.

I would like to see that happen. Currently I was told by an angry dwarf to rant about this on the forums...

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 9

I'll try to do a let's play with the losers (aka the minors) this weekend.

This is great! May I reiterate that I think stuff like this could be added in an optional build? An opt-in build?

I think I just did. ☺

Reply #12 Top

I'm going to try to get dev builds up for those who feel really frisky.

Reply #13 Top

I always enjoyed playing the wacky "Brad builds" for EWOM and FE. I would find dev builds fun here too.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 12

I'm going to try to get dev builds up for those who feel really frisky.

Exxxxcellent!

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 12

I'm going to try to get dev builds up for those who feel really frisky.

 

This would be fantastic if possible.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 12

I'm going to try to get dev builds up for those who feel really frisky.

Hell yeah!

 

Reply #17 Top

Devs builds - Great !!! 

Regarding OP - I somewhat share feelings, but I think it is too early to jump to conclusion. Lets see first some more content and how the game develops. 

Reply #18 Top

The more I play, the more I realize this game has more potential than any of the previous iterations. 

 

I have lots of faith. 

Reply #19 Top

So is this game the third major expansion that original Elemental purchasers get for free?

Reply #20 Top

Elemental purchasers were never promised a third expansion or game.

Reply #21 Top

One more- there's been talk of a major announcement, something we would never guess or know about, is SK that game?

Reply #22 Top

Nope. (Sorry so brief, answering on ipad)

Reply #23 Top

Quoting XWerewolfX, reply 1

minors

 

What or who are the minors, and why so important to the beta?

I'm a bit behind on the news you see?

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Tattyhat, reply 23


Quoting XWerewolfX,

minors



 

What or who are the minors, and why so important to the beta?

I'm a bit behind on the news you see?

 

So in this game the Sorcerer King has already won....the minors are basically the remnants of the other races that has been 'beaten', you need to ally with them and basically band together with as many as you can. It is important to the beta as I believe a lot of the mechanics rely upon using diplomacy to gain the upper hand and getting the bonuses provided by having these minors on your side.

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Reply #25 Top

Ah, I see.  That make's sense.  :)  Thanks.