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Non-humanoid Aliens

Non-humanoid Aliens

I would like to see one or two non-humanoid alien species added to GalCiv3, why I appreciate that the lore gives an explanation of why most species are humanoid is it impossible for any non-humanoid to be sentient in the GalCiv universe.

I don’t count Thalan’s as non-humanoid by the way as just doing a humanoid with funny backwards looking arms doesn’t really count in my opinion. I seem to remember them being less humanoid in GC2 or am I wrong?

However how about adding a few more exotic species?

What about a Mollusc like life form that evolved on a low G world? As one example after all we know Mollusc’s can be highly intelligent as Cephalopods show. This is just one example.

Why four limbs? Why Bilateral Symmetry? There are so many possibilities that could be explored.

Sadly I think Stardock have always preferred the man in the rubber suit style of aliens, the one thing I didn’t like about GC2.

Regardless of what Stardock decide I intend to start work on a non-humanoid species mod for GC3 as it’s something I have lots of ideas for and I really think would be refreshing.

399,001 views 79 replies
Reply #26 Top

Wish me luck at the dentist fellow empathetic humanoids. It usually makes me anxious and a bit of a arrogant jerk, but reading the forums is something that is calming. :)

reading econundrums quadruple post was nice and seeing the interesting animal concept pictures PR posted was interesting.

 

DARCA ;)

Reply #27 Top

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 25
Im out of this thread guys, I do not think you will be able to convince DARCA that his line of thought is flawed. He is obstinate.

And he might be using us as a stress reliever for a dentist appointment or something.

 

Oh I know that but I love to see examples of DARCA's non-logic, and I love to pick apart his statements. When I get bored with it I'll move on too I don't expect to convince him; I've never seen an example of DARCA changing his mind no regardless of any logical arguments arrayed against him.

Reply #28 Top

deleted as I mangled the quotes.

 

 

 

Reply #29 Top

One other thing wouldn't a 360 degree field of view be better than being able to look over your shoulder, so why not have 6 eyes with overlaping fields of view?

 

Just thinking about some of the points from DARCA's earlier reply.

 

Reply #30 Top

All this says Alien Mod is already in the works.

Reply #31 Top

I've never seen anyone so far stuck in antropocentrism.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Darca is russian.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 18

Max your ignorant on this topic. You danced around everything I said minced words and contributed no real facts that stated how non human life could look or function. I've spent years fucking with this shit and even with my imagination I couldn't find anything that worked seriously. And here you are playing with dreams. The FACT is Max that sifi culture depicts reality and our imaginations. I did not make my OP up this shit is real.

 

This shit is real only in our extremely limited knowledge. Non-human life can function perfectly well, we just are stuck with what we are familiar with.

If you honestly have spent years thinking this over and failing, then I am not impressed with your thinking.

 

There are no non-humanoids that don't copy existing creatures to a extent in sifi that I have ever seen. Every animal that is turned into a sifi race walks on legs and has a head. Every non-humanoid looks like a earth creature. So out of the past fifty years and billions of people there has been little creativity and its because all there is is all there is. Give your planet some credit

Only idiots assume that this planet is all there could be.


PR. They have the same amount of time on earth that we have and look at the dolphins and elephants. They are just smart food. Dolphins still get caught in nets and end up as the special tasty ingredient in tuna, and elephants...well i actually like elephants they are smart idiots . But they can't be more because they didn't discover pottery and electronics or evolved in the right direction like us. You can't make rudimentary electronics in water either, especially when your stupid and being hunted constantly to the point where half your brain is constantly awake! So you would have to be on land evolve to have versatile limbs.

Human without it's higher brain functions is just smart food.

Grant octopus same amount of sapience as human has and it will develop means to become more than prey. That our octopus have not made that evolutionary step does not mean same is true elsewhere.

Same way we could have gigantic creatures resembling externally our spiders who could very well be capable of sentience and would not be in any way humanoid.

 



 To not go extinct or thrive you need to constantly evolve and end up with the attributes i stated humanoids have. In the end I've heard of octopus dolphins elephants ants and a fucking Muppet as non-humanoid intelligent species and all of them lack even the potential to become anything more than prey. (I have the heart of a drengin. Lol.)

I shall not tell what kind of brain you have since you cannot come up with any alternative to humanoid shape as functional one, considering our humanoid body is horribly inefficient in most ways unless we back up it's shortcomings with our brain.

Implant that intellect to other creatures with sufficient capabilities of manipulation and you have similar success.

Reply #33 Top

If the majority of HUMANS that will play this GAME want non-humanoid life then it would already be in the series.

Just make a Mod.

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Reply #34 Top

Quoting ForesterSOF, reply 33

If the majority of HUMANS that will play this GAME want non-humanoid life then it would already be in the series.

Just make a Mod.

 

You're not correct. The law of supply and demand works both way.

When a company wants to produce something, they face the dilemma of supplying something that is perceived to be in demand (personal computers and smart phones for exemple, or to use your example, a humanoid race of aliens) or of generating a demand by supplying something that is perceived to be original and awesome(ex: google glasses, iphones before iphones were popular, or, to stay on topic, a civilization that is both credible and original, which already abund already in scifi literature *and* in nature on Earth).

 

There is no excuse for Stardock not to impress us with new and original content.

Reply #35 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 26

How the fuc% do you all except me to respond to all this? Lol

Forming retort now!...but after BOTH my appointments since this shit is now turning into a time trap. Lol

 

You could begin to concede at least some of the points we've made?

Reply #36 Top

I love everyone and everything. :)

 

DARCA ;)

Reply #37 Top

love is what makes fate mate great.

 

DARCA. ;)

Reply #38 Top

Speaking of Darca and humanoid races:   Cylons.   The 1980 BG Cylons look like metallic men wearing black dresses.  

Reply #39 Top

Quoting EvilMaxWar, reply 25

Im out of this thread guys, I do not think you will be able to convince DARCA that his line of thought is flawed. He is obstinate.

And he might be using us as a stress reliever for a dentist appointment or something.

That much was obvious from the first few posts.

Reply #40 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 36
/snip/

 

lol I'm being trolled, but why the hell not?


All of you are rephrasing my factual statements into your own arguments. Sad and stupid. I have been really clear and yet some of you seem to have lost the topic and are ranting on about the magnificence of nature.

It relates directly into your arguments. Accusing someone of creating a strawman argument when they have not is in fact the actual strawman fallacy.

1. ParagonRenagade. Species 8472 looks like a zombie human with three reverse joint legs, because it is. It's a humanoid.

So in other words, they don't share the same body plan? That's non-humanoid.

 

Tell me DARCA, what do you think "Humanoid" means?

The hutts are slug knockoffs with arms and...a head.

 

Last I checked, slugs are non-humanoid.

 

The Muppets are fubar and I hate them non do they fit in anywhere. They are not creative.

 

The Muppets are awesome! stfu! :3

 

The Thalan are human ants.

 

No they aren't, in fact they have several attributes (like a slow population growth) that directly go against the evolutionary strategy of Ants.

Why? Because humanoid is a solid seller and non-human isn't.

There have been many non-humanoid forms in much of the best-selling fiction ever made.


2. PR. You never answered the question because I am right. You need a hand and intelligence and to be star worthy. If your humanoid or hutt.

 

And? Do you think only Humanoids can have both? We have examples of animals on Earth that have both for Christ's sake!

3. Tergon. How diluted are you?

Deluded, Tergon isn't a fluid solution.

I failed to come up with a truly unique looking species that could hold a hammer and use technology. All I got was what pretty much every single writer and designer got, a knockoff malglumation of existing ones.

Amalgamation. And again;

 

Please show me analogs with Earth life. I'll wait.

4. Tergon. Only idiots can't read. I never said there can't be more than what we have, you guys should know me better than that. The quote you provided speeks of science fiction, not reality.

Science fiction often mirrors reality in uncanny ways

5. Tergon. Would,a shoulda, coulda, they aren't smart because they aren't fated to be. Humans eat octopus, octopus don't eat us. They could be as smart as Einstein and they would still be prey. You need limbs built for grabbing not for swimming.

Watch

6. Tergon. "Implant that intellect to other creatures with sufficient capabilities of manipulation and you have similar success." duuhhh. you just said if you have a capable body and intelligence you can be like a human. Who would have thought of that? Its not like I've been saying that is what EVERY "intelligent" species on earth lacks and people have been ranting on how I'm wrong when they agree with my hypothesis.

So you agree with his hypothetical?

Then why do you disagree that non-humanoid aliens can be intelligent.


7. Why do you think I care about this? You know the process of race creation so you know what I am talking about. To make a serious space fairing civilization you need to resemble a humanoid.

No you don't, and simply stating it doesn't make it fact.


8. Econundrum1. You don't even know how to make a logical argument. Not here at least. You wanted to see a mollusks type civ. That's why I say non-humanoid intelligent life defies imagination. Another civ that is "different" but is based on a real one is the norm. You can put your head up your ass and sing the national anthem backwards and tap your feet together three times but you can't change that reality. I wish it was different myself.

That's by necessity; alien life is completely outside our experience, so it's not like we're able to use any example from the real world to base our conjecture on. We can, however, extrapolate probable courses of evolution by looking of examples of convergent evolution on Earth, which shows the solution in question is preferred by natural selection and not a fluke.

In that vein; eyes, limbs, skeletons, fins, aerodynamic bodies and their ilk are likely to be found on other planets.

9. Iggore and tergon. Humans are the heirs of earth.we are evolving and growing faster than compression.

Competition. And Humans actually evolve very slowly relative to many faster-breeding living things, in fact we are faster at the process than only a minuscule portion of all animals. The only relevant sense in which we are 'evolving' is in terms of technology, and it remains to be seen if technology will destroy us.

Earth isn't the property of anyone, it belongs to nature, we are not 'heirs' in any sense. 

We are intricately and masterfully made

No we're not, the Human body plan is one of the most inefficient ones in nature. The only things we're good at are; talking, thinking, walking and grabbing. Other animals have us beat in the latter two categories by miles.

look at the results.

A third of all childbirths prior to industrialization resulting in the death of either the mother or baby? Joints prone to arthritis? Weak and minuscule muscle mass? Superfluous internal organs?

To be the master of a environment is to be complacent.

Many animals otherwise untouched due to their place in the food chain are often mobbed by many members of 'weaker' species. Lions and hyenas regularly get trampled or gored by their prey, whales and sharks get swarmed by various animals which disable them by butting their stomaches.

There's no complacency involved.

The Hawk has became the ultimate bird of prey genetically and mentally.

There have been many 'birds' of prey vastly superior to the Hawk.

It has also became weak.

Go fight a Hawk DARCA. You won't win.

Dependent on meat to survive

Like Humans?

and low flexibility

 

Hawks and other birds/analogs like them are widespread on nearly every continent. That doesn't happen through lack of flexibility.

makes this "intelligent" bird just like the dolphin, dog, elephant, primate, octopus, and the millions of other species, a corpse for the great extinction.

If the infrastructure of Human civilization was destroyed (done effortlessly through gamma ray bursts, severe solar activity, a radical climate shift, or meteor impact), more than 7 billion people would be doomed, and the survivors would revert back into savages easily smashed by any number of disasters.

When you look around, society seems pretty stable and immutable right? Wrong. It's balanced on a knife-edge, and all it takes is a small push for things to fall apart.


11. Econundrum1. You could be one blob of eyes but they have to be connected to a brain. The amount of power and mental compression it takes to see is enormous, the problem is to see in all directions would cause sensory overload and that takes brain space.

Insects and other invertebrates often have hundreds or thousands of eyes, and their brains are literally a million times smaller than ours. My desktop computer, which is about as powerful as 1/100th of my brain, could handle input from 8 cameras pretty effortlessly while running many other processes.

Much of the calculationsSpace that could be spread out more effectively like in real life. Ears can be more effective because they simpler for detecting predators/prey and reptiles use smell, elephants feel the ground, bats use radar. To be the eye species would look cool but would probably suck in application.

 

This guy has no eyes, seriously entirely blind to visible light. And he's been evaluated by biologists to be completely viable in the ecosystem he's part of.

This goes to show why sight and perception of your environment must be balanced or risk complacency.

Almost every multicellular animal that has ever existed, barring some in the early Cambrian Explosion, have had extensive systems of detection used to sense the environment. It's a non-issue.

Also when designing its hard to make a signature feature and not fixate on it.

Don't see how that's relevant.

12. Iggore. I am not a Russian but your right about antropocentrism. I believe deformed, non symmetrical, non-humanoid, water dwelling, abominations can't even make a shit factory much less discover FTL travel. Not without being humanoid.

Then you're painfully wrong.

13. Thank you fosterSOF for being open minded and a realist.

He wasn't agreeing with you, he was addressing the in-game issue.


14. ^. All of you are ignoring what I am saying as you continue a pointless illogical argument supporting something that doesn't exist. This is becoming quite sad if you look back at the responses to my my statements. As much as you all of you are in denial I have been very unDARCA and have , spoke clearly and cursed.

DARCA, you never write clearly, and you never address any points without diverting to another subject.

Sure non-humanoid life can develop I never said it couldn't, but it needs have hands be intelligent and live on land. Otherwise human/drengin will eat and enslave them like pigs and cattle.

 

Ny your criteria, if you insert high intelligence into the following they should be dandy;

 

 

lol, wrekt.

I hope your all edjemicated now, I am.

 

No you're not DARCA :(

Reply #41 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 37


Quoting Iggore, reply 35
Quoting DARCA1213, reply 26
How the fuc% do you all except me to respond to all this? Lol

Forming retort now!...but after BOTH my appointments since this shit is now turning into a time trap. Lol

 

You could begin to concede at least some of the points we've made?

give me comprehensive list of your points.

Bty. If you are the greatest writer on earth and make a series with a odd looking non-humanoid as the main race it's going to be known as a fun childens book with "imaginative" characters. (that's not my story bty.)

Their isn't a very big market for non-humanoids anywhere but as animals and one episode pre-flight races in star trek.

 

DARCA.

You know, in Startrek, they admited that the only reason they made boring humanoid aliens was budget constrain and nothing else.They knew even back then that the diversity of worlds out there was likely to generate species widely different from ours.

 

Here's a short story by canadian author Peter Watt, called Blindsight. The aliens depicted in it are the most "alien" I know of in scifi litterature, and you might enjoy reading it.

 

The story is freely available on his website.

 

Your problem Darca is that you're not aware of how the domination of Earth by a species like humans is the product of pure dumb luck and that there was nothing predetermined about it. My point with the ants is that non-sentient species are capable of technology.

 

Also, I dont think I'm the only one who is made a bit uneasy by your logic, which could also be used to support creationism, social darwinism and other pseudo-scientific bollock. I mean, come on:

 

5. Would,a shoulda, coulda, they aren't smart because they aren't fated to be. Europeans enslaves Africans, Africans dont enslave us. They could be tent times more numerous than us, and they would still be slaves. You need technology to bahblahblah

 

Yikes.

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Reply #42 Top

DARCA...

Let's put an end to this thread shall we by settling on the fact that we simply do not know.

We have zero empirical evidence about what other Alien civilizations are like. We do not even have any evidence that there are any at all.

  Even if what you say was true, you cannot prove it.  Evolutionary biologists do not all agree on this because it is theory, no observation can be made to verify those theories. 

Even though your theory might make sense if you look at it through the logic of convergent evolution, that still does not prove anything in the absence of actual evidences. And even if it turns out that most technologically advanced aliens are humanoid. Suppose we meet 10 of them and they are all humanoid, that still does not prove it is the only type in the universe.  There are millions of billions of billions of stars in the observable universe.

Reply #43 Top

Delete

Reply #44 Top

What I say and what is fact are different. There is a Sovereign truth to all this. I can only say what I believe, and I did listen to everything said...i just don't agree with most of it.

Fate is real and it encumbers everything everywhere all the time iggore. Everything from winning the lottery to the electrons in your genes is of its power. May the light bless your eyes to see this.

 

DARCA

Reply #45 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 44

What I say and what is fact are different. There is a Sovereign truth to all this. I can only say what I believe, and I did listen to everything said...i just don't agree with most of it.

Fate is real and it encumbers everything everywhere all the time iggore. Everything from winning the lottery to the electrons in your genes is of its power. May the light bless your eyes to see this.

 
DARCA

 

I know I told you this a few seconds ago in chat, but that's pretty crazy DARCA

Reply #46 Top

DARCA,

I'm well aware of how our brains process visual information there is quiet a lot of research available on this and we dedicate a larger area of our brain to this than non-primate mammals who dedicate more of their brain to smell. However what you fail to see is an alien brain could infact be larger than ours and dedicate more of it's area to visual processing having an arbitary number of eyes.

We have one example of the evolutionary process here on earth since all life is related here, we do not know that evolution would produce the same series of forms if run some where else under slightly varying conditions. I've yet to see any scientist suggest that only a humanoid life form can be sentient or develop technology.

It is extremely unlikley that we would find life exactly conforming to the same Kingdoms, Phylla other sub-categorisation used to describe species in our ecosystem in an alien one yet alone organisms conforming to the exact same body plan.

You also seem unsure what Humanoid means to you, can you give me your definition?

"There is a Sovereign truth to all this". Saying this does not make it so, and I've yet to see you marshal a coherent argument around this sovereign truth you proclaim to have discovered.Your logical argument goes; Humans are humanoids, humans have technology therefore only Humanoids can have technology. Hands can grasp and manipulate things therefore only hands can be used to manipulate things. These arguments are logical fallacies, it's like you've lived in a house all your life alone with a dog and noted dogs have 4 legs so everything with 4 legs must be a dog.

By the way Octopus and Squid generally don't use their tentacles to swim, they use them for many other things including grasping and manipulating objects, disguise, as decoys and reproduction as well as for walking on the ocean bottom.

 

 

 

 

Reply #47 Top

Are you five years old in the brain? Do you lack reading comprehension? Because real octopus are. Lol

The Sovereign truth refers what we don't know. You might say magic is real, I say it isn't but we both know there is a answer. Why did I use the word Sovereign? Because it just sounded cooler in the sentence and I liked it, that's what I've discovered. :)

I made three points before and will say them:

1 . Its difficult to make unique non-humanoids that don't resemble existing species AND can go to space. If it was as simple as dreaming them up like the pictures PR supplied then it would be a common practice. So to say it bluntly, its hard to do.

2. Seilore said to me "gas people" could exist. That is a whole new shit field I won't go deep into, but I'm not one say that they couldn't exist. I've even entertained a similar concept myself but its more complex than basing them of one star trek episode, saying they use telekinesis to build, and are entities Seilore. It takes alot of thought to make a serious species that is likable AND sellable$ Alot more than a one episode passing thought of a writer.

So to simply be non-humanoid is very easy. To make a functional body is hard, making them likable is too.

So as I said countless times before, a problem I have is not that non-humanoids are bad, but having knockoff copies of earth is. Its not a cardinal sin to mix species but I wish there was more creativity as a whole for si-fi so forums like this don't have to ask the devs about non-humanoids. Sad.

3. The primary reason. You can be a smart thousand eyed being, a gas person, a octopus, a dolphin, a elephant, a raccoon, a bird, a scorpion, a spider, a primate, a ant, a... whatever PR showed, a blob, but you still need a capacity for intelligence and a "sizeable hand like thing" to influence weighed objects. Look at primates they lack enough intellect despite their bodies, it takes both.

When you look at thalan they are similar to ant people. Its marketing. The same goes for other species of earth and non.

Everyone that said if raccoons, dolphins, octopus, elephants, dogs, scorpions, spiders, birds, can be intelligent enough to build if they were smart enough, is absolutely right. They WOULD be but they aren't because they don't have BOTH hands and intellect. I have seen many renditions of all of theses species and they all get humanized to some extent because of this.

So:

1. Making original non-humanoid species is very hard as well as selling one as a major race.

2. Having a humanoid version of existing species is common but very native. So having fish people is likeable/sellable but nothing new.

3. Making a functional non-humanoid body that doesn't have the perquisites of humanoids is zero to none, thus bringing up one and two again.

I am not anthroprejudice, just bitter towards the industry I work in. :)

 

DARCA ;)

Reply #48 Top

:drool: o_O

this forum is broken, the stuff is gone.

at least I know more about the creative process and the logic of it a bit.

apart from this, I feel like what's out there today is vastly just humans with alien side kicks or as bad guys. I like what galciv has though, I want to play as ape and fish people even if it is the norm! Lol. but I just got galciv2 and other games. X( so I will wait for release to play as the iridium.

oh, its also hard to find nonhumaniod superheros.

Reply #49 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 44

What I say and what is fact are different. There is a Sovereign truth to all this. I can only say what I believe, and I did listen to everything said...i just don't agree with most of it.

Fate is real and it encumbers everything everywhere all the time iggore. Everything from winning the lottery to the electrons in your genes is of its power. May the light bless your eyes to see this.

 

DARCA

 

Fate is what fools slap on simple matter of coincidence and come up with concept that there is some actual meaning.

Your response has apparently been lost but I got the gist of it from reply of others. Now, how about you try to for once use that brain nature gave you and THINK.

Octopus are not intelligent because coincidence did not make them smart. It could have just as well gone other way.

Mammals own the food chain only because freak accident with meteorite blasted the existing top species out of the equation. There was no fate, just freak accident which could have been repeated 20 millenia ago and left humans dead.

Or perhaps out ancestors just had died out.

 

Its difficult to make unique non-humanoids that don't resemble existing species AND can go to space. If it was as simple as dreaming them up like the pictures PR supplied then it would be a common practice. So to say it bluntly, its hard to do.

Difficult but not impossible, and your claim is that it is impossible for any species to be successful if they are not humanoid. Essentially your rather idiotic idea is that non-humanoid = not able to be spacefaring. That is idiocy of greatest degree.

 

Only things necessary for species to be able to somehow become spacefaring are intellect and SOME kind of manipulative appendages. They do NOT need to be hands as alternatives can exist.

 

3. The primary reason. You can be a smart thousand eyed being, a gas person, a octopus, a dolphin, a elephant, a raccoon, a bird, a scorpion, a spider, a primate, a ant, a... whatever PR showed, a blob, but you still need a capacity for intelligence and a "sizeable hand like thing" to influence weighed objects. Look at primates they lack enough intellect despite their bodies, it takes both.

Look at variety of animals and you see incredible dexterity in the way they use their appendages. All they lack is smarts, insert smarts and suddenly you have species that can progress until it can reach the stars.

Elephants come close to both, they are very good at using something that is actually hugely distended upper lip and nose to very difficult things.

Their tools will not be what we would use, but they would develop tools either way.

 

Everyone that said if raccoons, dolphins, octopus, elephants, dogs, scorpions, spiders, birds, can be intelligent enough to build if they were smart enough, is absolutely right. They WOULD be but they aren't because they don't have BOTH hands and intellect. I have seen many renditions of all of theses species and they all get humanized to some extent because of this.

How are they "humanized"? By adding intellect? Well whoop de f***** do. They are given brains because else it would not be intelligent alien life would it?

And as you admit yourself, once you add brains to the manipulative abilities you have alien species capable of being technologically advanced.

Which is in complete contrast to your position where you claimed that only humanoids can achieve that.

Reply #50 Top

I've had an idea for a "semi-humanoid" alien.By this I mean it looks some what humanoid and at the same time not very humanoid.