Many times in the past I have seen posts from Brad saying Drengins were his favorite.

So he want to destroy us or put into slavery? I'm pre-ordering my cancel!

The Drengin need some redeemable qualities. I think that they're well, too stereotypical evil so to speak.

Yeah, they are.  But, it's ok to leave them that way.  It lets me play more of an anti-hero since I prefer being "evil" but not stupid bond-villian evil.  I'm a pragmatist.  Creatures like the Drengin are insulting, and I enjoy wiping them out.  They remind me of a certain political party here on Earth, but I won't name it, for obvious reasons.

In a fantasy or scifi game, it is perfectly okay with a myriad of races to have one that is pure evil. I mean, to the Drengin they're not being "evil". They have people to feed and an empire to protect, and slave labour is an effective method.

So long as they're not all extremes, having one on the extreme isn't a problem.

I was going to say something, then I remembered logic isn't welcome in the forums.

In any case, they work for the game, that's good enough.  Such a space-faring civilization cannot exist in reality, period.

They're patient and not very vindictive. Isn't that good enough?

Why is that "such a space-faring civilization cannot exist in reality, period"?  The Universe is a big place.

And our knowledge of the universe is rather limited. Which makes me wonder how anyone can make such an absolute positive statement like Tharios's in the first place. As an opinion, theory, or belief I can understand, but not as a statement of absolute fact.

This sort of statement was part of the basis for Niven's Man-Kzin wars. The assumption ended poorly, as the name might imply.

Heck, it gets tossed around within some of the background to GalCiv itself.

I don't think interstellar conquest would be terribly practical in real life even if we do assume the possibility of FTL travel. But it's a bit ridiculous to be making confident assertions about the social structures of aliens when we've never met any.

Ok...last post for me.  Because I can't handle this kind of thing anymore.

So...let me see if I've got this right.  You all seem to think that the natural laws of the universe are somehow different, not clear on the other side of the universe where there's at least an incalculably small chance it could be true, but right here in our own galaxy, where the idea is so absurd that it would inherently end the concept of an internally coherent galaxy such as we live in.

And if not that, the supposed justification of creatures that behave as the Drengin actually being able to exist as they are against the weight of nearly all currently understood evolutionary principle, and historical precedent...is a work of fiction?  Of course they work in the game, and of course similar creatures work in whatever fictional media they exist in...it's FICTION, and it works however the author wants it to work whether it makes sense in reality or not.  Oh, who am I kidding.  Clearly, something like the Force is totally likely to be real, since it was in Star Wars, it must be possible, right?

I'm out, I'm done.  My face can't take any more palming.

Enjoy the rest of the show, folks. 

No. Let me be perfectly clear on this, we don't know all there is to know about the universe, natural laws or not. There is a great deal more to discover.

Personally, I don't think the Drengin are very realistic; they have more in common with orcs than what I'd consider what aliens would most likely be. But it's just beyond ridiculous to make confident assertions as to what aliens must be like when we have absolutely nothing to base that on. (And as for evolutionary psychology, everything we know about it comes from Earth life. There are a few things likely to be universal constants - we'll never see a species that simply does not reproduce, for obvious reasons - but they're very general).

Yeah I came here to say this. Dregin are this setting's orcs, down to the green skin. The designers managed to creat a race that works entirely on slavery, but it work because they pushed the concepts so far. Who need to use rivers and coal to generate energy, when we can just cloned slaves and burn their goddamn souls? These people have tasty flesh? Lets launch an invasion 75 000 years in the making.

What the Dregin lacks in credibility, they make up with style. Their's, and the Korath's technology tree is by far my favorite to discover and re-discover.

To the guy who think that a race like that can't exist because it isnt pragmatic enough, let's not forget that the Dregin think the same thing of humans; the Dregins are terrified of our affinity for genocide, especially when we waste so much ressources turning on each other for no logical reason (Holocaust, Gulags).

It would be amazing if your leader began the game as a young upstart and then aged as the time went by. It would even be cool to see the leaders die and pass on the empire to their children or something, similar to dynasties in the Total War games.

That could be bad... although I wouldn't mind seeing the avatars age as the battles waged through. Simple marks to show aging with the number of opponents destroyed. Starting 8 opponents

- 0 - 2 Young

- 3 - 5 Middle

- 6 - 7 Aged

I'm not for the dynasty system though.

But I do like to show their age as the conflict continues and these leaders deaths weigh on everyone.

Re the drengin, you'll have to do some more face palming then when you re-read our own bloody history right here on earth, (I don't mean this as a swear word, I mean bloody, violent and very dark in places)

Some very strange concepts of sacrifice to some imaginary beings and cannibalism existed in some very dark times, heck the former still goes on today in the minds of those fighting certain wars. Wars were considered natural and quite justified, even encouraged ways of living in certain societies, especially when someone didn't share your pantheon of gods, ethnicity or had some nice food or women they could take, or just ways to legitimize your own rule to expand your borders (when borders became a more tangible concept).

Now if you think this small spec of a planet amongst countless billions is likely to embody every concept that has ever existed in creation, you are quite frankly talking about concepts you couldn’t possibly know or establish thusly it is a wasted debate.

I don't feel the drengin are violent enough to feel like a feudal kingdom of another religion in the dark ages for example, they could well be constantly raiding your borders any chance they'd get, not giving you a nice formal treaty or trading with you, you'd not be a lower class of person, you'd be a resource. (You'd not even be that to many of them, you'd just be something in the way of the resources)

One of the first races I'll mod in will be a pure evil race, evil being 100% self centered, blind to everything that doesn't benefit them, and enjoying that aspect of their being where the war is always coming you can be sure of it. Along with a race that is the polar opposite to that type of being, so benign and giving you'll actually want them on your borders, giving you gifts just because they can, (If we get decent control of their AI or relation modifiers anyway in regards to modding.)

Drengin painting from 1995

This thread is old... but anyways, this painting looks a lot like something out of Warhammer 40k, because of the darkness, the skulls and the obvious Ork. Thats why I always call the Drengin as Orks or Space Orcs. 

the Drengin are very open minded when it comes to food. So there is that.

Hehe! cool stuff. 

I was thinking aside from the weariness of his expression, Ol Lord Kona is not in too bad a nick. He doesn't seem to have succumbed to the effects of gravity like many of us older folk. Or is that suit he's wearing helping him out?

If so, where can I get one of those suits?

What I have taken from this thread is that clearly we need a Warhammer 40K mod complete with ships from Battlefleet Gothic. Massive karma if someone does this.

I find it quite hilarious that some posts suggest the Drengin are evil because they use slavery. Truth: many of the inexpensive consumer products people in the West take for granted are produced by slaves.  Also, the US constitution has not freed all slaves.  People in prisons are legally subject to being enslaved.  Some states are actually going back to this, as they revoke the child labor laws, etc.  Many of our inexpensive foods (fruits/veggies) are picked by a class of people who might as well be slaves.  Free range slavery we have.  Moving on to war, violence, etc., well not now...  The truth is, we, humans, have aspects of evil systems all around us, benefit from them, and rationalize their continuance.  Most of us who are reading these posts on these StarDock blogs (as well as many other companies' sites) have the life we do because of the enslavement of other humans across the sea.  Hey,its just a game, after all!      And I love playing the Drengin (not).

Since when have they been clear on our side?

Get rid of your self-fooling illusions. There are no "currently understood" principles only "currently believed in". Even more so when we're talking about something as "shady" as "evolution" and history.

Well, since we're comparing reality with fiction anyway... Go watch matrix. Then prove to me that you are NOT inside it and that the laws you claim to "understand" aren't being bended while you aren't noticing.

I generally don't advise seeking wisdom in fiction, but that one serves as a great example of the foolishness of the concept of "knowledge".

There's no actual "knowledge" (unless you redefine the word to the point where the term becomes something completely different), only assumptions aka beliefs.

The main difference between a scientist and a believer is that one of them doesn't lie to himself about the foundation of his assumptions.

Once you realise that, the fiction is no longer something that "couldn't happen" it's just something that didn't happen, same as anything else except for the few thing that SUPPOSEDLY did happen.

*sigh* ... But then again I probably shouldn't raise this kind of topics on a forum. Especially with someone who claims to have stopped reading.