Draginol Draginol

Comparing Sweden/Finland/Denmark vs. other countries

Comparing Sweden/Finland/Denmark vs. other countries

Every few weeks someone writes an article comparing some amazing statistic from the Nordic countries in Europe and then compares that statistic to the United States in total.  It’s always some ridiculous apples and oranges comparison that results in a meaningless comparison.

So just as a reminder, the populations of these countries are:

  • Sweden: 9.5 million
  • Denmark: 5.6 million
  • Finland: 5.4 million
  • Norway: 5 million

In addition, demographically and culturally they are relatively homogenous.

By contrast, the United States has a population of 314 million. 

Next time you see someone playing the stats game with a Nordic vs. USA make it a bit more relevant.

Let’s use a US state that is similar to Nordic countries like say Massachusetts: Population 6.7 million.

  Mass Sweden
Population 6.7m 9.5m
White 84% ~98%
Lifespan 80.1 81.2
GDP per capita $58,108 $57,297
Incarceration rate per 100k 218 67
Dominant Religion Catholic 44% Evangelical Lutheran: 94%
Mean income per person $33,966 $21,1193

Now, I picked Massachusetts originally because it has some similar basic demographics (population and culture).  Though, as you can see even here, while Massachusetts is relatively homogenous for a US state, it can’t touch Sweden.

None of this is meant to make one look better than the other. In fact, the chart above makes it clear that both have their own strengths.  The point is that when someone tries to compare a homogenous nation state with a population of that of a smallish US state with the entire United States, put on your skeptics hat on.

220,301 views 65 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 50
You will never see the true Canada from the tourist traps,

Yes....same applies in Oz.   Only difference with Oz is you can get into the middle of nowhere and encounter something that wants to poison/kill/eat you....;)

Reply #52 Top

....and then there's the animals.....;p

Reply #53 Top

 

Yeah Banff and Lake Louise are just about the most commercialised 'nature' venues in Canada.  You couldn't pay me to go spend time there 'in nature'.  I prefer the more 'off the beaten track' holidays here.   Hell if you have to go the 'resort' way even the older tourist towns like Radium Hot Springs have more 'off-the-beaten-track' nature just a few miles walk/drive away.

Reply #54 Top

You compared mean as opposed to median income and then you estimated an after tax income (and I don't see how you can do that mathematically on a mean income).

 

Which kind of ignores everything that makes this comparison interesting e.g. sweden is a much more equal society and that people do get something for their taxes (things they'd have to pay for in the US, if they can afford to).

 

-edit- I'd look at it like this:

For people in top economic percentiles. In MA you're going to have greatly more disposable income, trade off you will have lower health metrics and less security. Otherwise very similar.

For the rest you're much better off in sweden. But do we care?

So it's a social choice not an economic one. Both systems 'work'.

 

 

 

Reply #55 Top

By work I mean they both work for me :)

I get to play your games and Paradox's.

Reply #56 Top

BTW, next time someone says the US should do something because (country in Europe does it) ask them why the EU itself doesn't do it? You want to talk about wealth disparity, look at the EU.  Compare the stats of Bulgaria (an EU country) with that of say Germany or Sweden or France.  

While wealth inequality in the US is much much much better than it is in Europe (again, Europe, not a cherry picked country in Europe), it is still sufficient to implement nation wide programs.

Reply #57 Top

Some European countries (like Norway) still refuse to be member of the EU. Mostly because we don't want to share our oil money and not have a real say in EU policies.

Reply #58 Top

Algonquin park!  Brings back memories.  40 years ago four of us went kayaking deep into the park.  Water was safe to drink - even without any chlorine.  Was a cliff that you could high dive off of.  The sounds, the aromas, and the numerous little surprises by the wildlife... wow.  And the panoramas.  Well worth the drive from Buffalo, NY. Lifelong memories of the awesome variety.

Reply #59 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 56

BTW, next time someone says the US should do something because (country in Europe does it) ask them why the EU itself doesn't do it? You want to talk about wealth disparity, look at the EU.  Compare the stats of Bulgaria (an EU country) with that of say Germany or Sweden or France.  

While wealth inequality in the US is much much much better than it is in Europe (again, Europe, not a cherry picked country in Europe), it is still sufficient to implement nation wide programs.

 

If it wasn't for those transfers of wealth, the ex-confederate states would probably be at the economic level of Bulgaria, at best.  Most likely they would be failed states on par with Nigeria or Pakistan.

 

Reply #60 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 59


Quoting Frogboy, reply 56
BTW, next time someone says the US should do something because (country in Europe does it) ask them why the EU itself doesn't do it? You want to talk about wealth disparity, look at the EU.  Compare the stats of Bulgaria (an EU country) with that of say Germany or Sweden or France.  

While wealth inequality in the US is much much much better than it is in Europe (again, Europe, not a cherry picked country in Europe), it is still sufficient to implement nation wide programs.

 

If it wasn't for those transfers of wealth, the ex-confederate states would probably be at the economic level of Bulgaria, at best.  Most likely they would be failed states on par with Nigeria or Pakistan.

 

Sure, if you annihilate a land they're going to be in bad shape. The same could be said for Japan and Germany.

Reply #61 Top

So you're saying the South was completely annihilated in 1860?  Some areas were, but nothing like modern warfare, and the level of infrastructure in the South was poor enough that it didn't do all that much.

 

A victorious CSA would have been ruled by tinpots with high levels of inequality.  There would be no democracy, and the economy would collapse within 20 years.  (and they'd probably try to start a war and get stomped to boot)   The North probably wouldn't want the South back because they'd decline so much and so rapidly. 

 

 

[back on topic]

I don't think the real issue is the size of the countries as much as the structure, though it is a fair and valid argument to say that large countries tend to have different structures than small ones, given that large countries tend to rely more on natural resources, which by the very nature of their businesses tend to be exploitative.  (US, Russia, Canada, Brazil and China all are like this- though Canada bucks the trend despite being large- why is that?)

Reply #62 Top

Ehm, dont know where u got that statistics from really, im a swede and first of Sweden isnt really homogenous in that sense, at least not anymore. Dont know if u only measure it by standards like "asian" or "white" but Sweden is definetaly not 98 % white or homogenous att all anymore actually. Recent years the non western immigration in to sweden has been enormous. Take the the current Conflict in Syria for exampel. Our goverment currently grant permanent citizenship to any Syrian refugee who enters our borders. The latest OECD research shows that our schools perform on the level with Mexico.

Our "Far Right" and "Far left"(Communists)  are rising. Pathetic media wars and desperation from the established parties and mainstream media is only making shit worse. And yea the only country in the world who have more rapes per year then sweden according to statistics(Measured by population) is south africa. Dont know that much about US but your country must really suck.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 61

I don't think the real issue is the size of the countries as much as the structure, though it is a fair and valid argument to say that large countries tend to have different structures than small ones, given that large countries tend to rely more on natural resources, which by the very nature of their businesses tend to be exploitative.  (US, Russia, Canada, Brazil and China all are like this- though Canada bucks the trend despite being large- why is that?)

The problem isn't size.  It's cultural and ethnic (two sides of the same coin, really) homogeneity.  The larger the country the more heterogeneous it likely is. 

Reply #64 Top

True, even if a country is homogenous, make it large enough and it will stop being homogenous.  (See the differences between Northern and Southern culture in the US- it really is two Americas)

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #65 Top

Quoting Alstein, reply 64

True, even if a country is homogenous, make it large enough and it will stop being homogenous.  (See the differences between Northern and Southern culture in the US- it really is two Americas)

 

Exactly. There are parts of the United States that are practically third-world countries. And their stats get thrown in with the mass.

Imagine if Sweden had to take Albania's stats into it. Suddenly, things start to look very different.