I have some questions about suicide position

Maybe slightly because of the Ferrous planets, but the rest of the planets are no harder to take than an ice/volcanic.

As for the Civ labs, what they are probably doing is quickly researching planet colonization techs. They techs will last even if you no longer have the civic labs, so you can quickly research say all tier 2 colonization research, then scuttle the labs and build 3 military labs for starbases. Then when it comes time to flee, they can colonize almost all planets with their colony cap so you should find a good spot to rebuild.

Also as TEC Rebels they might be going for Truce Amongst Rogues, so they don't even need to kill the militia as they flee and cap rapidly rebuild. The militia also makes a great distraction for a pursuing fleet, and running through the pirate base should get anyone but another TEC Rebel player off your back.

Ok GoaFan77, I can understand building 2 civ labs to get ice/volcanic/greenhouse colonization techs, but going for

TAR seems extreme. TAR is 4 civ labs, $3000. 350 metal and 625 crystal. Thats a huge investment for a TEC rebel player.

Furthermore, the only defense for your homeworld are light frigates and gun turrets. Will this be enough to delay the eventual double attack on you?

Wrong!  GoaFan, whats up?  Your comments are full of inaccuracies lately.  All of the DLC planets require 3 civic labs or more (except for Advent Greenhouse).  And they usually have a lot more militia!

As for playing the suicide spot, starbasing your home as TEC or Advent usually just delays the eventual loss of your homeworld.  I can't say there is a good strategy for that postition.

double post

If you're facing players better than you, as I usually am, even a Starbase might not last all that long. A single military lab for Corvettes and repair platforms with 4 civic labs for planet colonizations and TaR ensures your colony cap has full freedom of movement as you run away from your homeworld, and if only one of them attacks you, you can actually still hold out for a while, again perhaps long enough to scuttle some civic labs and build a starbase anyways (TaR doesn't need the labs active either).

If you do get double rushed by very good players, you're going to need your starbase to have auxiliary government and a fair amount of hull upgrades to even be a road block for them. As usual its a judgement call if that delay is worth more than the boost you'll get from TaR in reestablishing yourself and losing your pursuers, but I've had it work more than a few times.

I meant the militia guarding them, not the civic labs. Sorry for being unclear. And again I think Ferrous is the only one that has noticeable more militia than Ice/Volcanic.

*Barren - 1 Light Frigate, 1 Flak, 1 Siege

*Greenhouse - Basically identical to Ice/Volcanics

*Oceanic - This one is actually a bit weird, in non-competitive maps its a "Strong" militia planet, but in competitive maps it used the same militia as ice.   That said in MP everyone should be using competitive maps, I have no idea why some people who host 5v5s don't.

*Ferrous - Strong militia like Terran/Desert.

Not to offend anyone but going 3 heck even 2 civ labs in suicide against skilled will ensure your death in first 15 min of the game and is plain stupid.

Perhaps there is one exception when you have 4 pj from either of enemies but even then.....

Hmmm.  Thanks GoaFan.  Sorry, I misunderstood.  But I think the game is actually putting out more militia than your listed amounts, and more DLC planets may be a "bit weird".  We need to figure out if this is bugged for non competitive maps.  Which I actually prefer.  I like the randomness, and the artifacts, and planet bonuses of non competitive maps.

This.

As soon as you realize your in suicide spot, get your cap out. make military lab and scuttle your cap factory.

Either make 2nd military lab, or 3rd factory (depending on if you want LRF)

If you know your going to get good feed, you can do both with planet upgrade.

Get lots of repair bays asap either way, and don't lose your cap !

Fleet hard!

Making civic labs in this spot (unless you know its noobs around you) is utter stupidity in 5v5.

You waste a much more valuable resource than money, you waste time. Which you have very little of.

Worse, very skilled opponents will see you blowing on civ labs, and get up eco before they fleet, and/or just starbase you spending very little to take you out, screwing over your team.

If you get up enough fleet to defend, and your getting good feed. Then you can think about civ labs for colonizing, but i would scuttle them as soon as the planet researches are done because you most likely are going to need the building space.

I would disagree in the case of Advent. Civ labs aren't the first priority for sure, but once you have a starbase and fleet to defend, your next concern is getting cultured out. As Advent in this position I often build 2 Civ labs and research the starbase culture upgrade. This is assuming there is an eco player to feed you. This forces the attackers to invest in civ labs/culture too or else quickly lose control of their planets surrounding your HW. You can last a long time in suicide spot this way. It is much harder/riskier to do as non-advent though as you need more civ labs and will have to actually build a temple/take up more logistics slots.

Let me discuss 3 recent games that involved suicide players...

In the first game, Oli was in suicide, surrounded by 2 decently skilled players and I was his eco...early feed and continual feed allowed him to have a giant fleet and hold several planets....by the end of the game, Oli was fighting a 4v1, I as eco never had to fleet, and he still was holding on to several planets...he played his position very well and the combination of his excellent play and large amounts of feed (I feed 360k that game, most of it to him) won us the game...

In the second game, Oli was in suicide, surrounded by me and Khan....khan was very close, but I was 4-5 jumps away and I had to go through some very rough militia...in this case, the DLC actually advantaged the suicide player, because the only planets between me and him (and there were several) were all 3 or 4 tech planets....Oli got early feed and stopped khan dead cold...by the time I got to Oli, there was no way the situation could be salvaged, especially since we didn't have an eco player...in this case, early feed combined with a good map position allowed a suicide player to ravage both of his opponents...

I don't remember if Oli SBed his HW in the 1st game, but regardless he held onto several planets for the entire game....in the 2nd game, I don't think Oli ever built a starbase....

In the third game, I was in suicide, with Doci and Kevin on my flanks...both of them were very close (HWs 3 jumps away)....I don't remember who my feeder was, but I think it was either Oli or Slackah...I held onto my HW and moon for a decent while, and after losing my moon I still clung to my HW for most of the game...in this case I did have to SB my HW, and it took 2 ragnarovs and a lvl 6 marza to drive me off of it, and only by sniping out my ability to generate enough culture (SB and tactical structures were still there)...a DE built by Oli allowed me to recolonize my HW...meanwhile, my titan and two capital ships had safely made it to the map center and were reading to recolonize...

By all accounts, these three suicide plays were extremely successful, and largely for the same reasons:

1. Early and consistent feed....all three suicides had a skilled feeder on the other end who fed them ASAP
2. Immediate fleet up...part of this is using military labs to get the ships you need....I can't speak for Oli, but I myself used lum spam to stop my enemies...
3. Key military techs....repair bays are essential, and in my case I also needed hangars with shield bestowal and eventually guardians with repulsion...in 2 of the three cases, 4 military labs were needed for titans, and in my case I had to get those techs before I lost my moon, because maintaining 4+ military labs for a long period of time was impossible...level 4 and 5 techs (titan techs, RB, aux gov for TEC, repulsion) on the military side are far more relevant than on the civilian side...you can survive without colonizing fancy planets, but you won't hold your HW without having good military options
4. The suicide plays forced the nearby players to militarize instead of eco...even though against me, Doci still got a good economy, he couldn't send his fleet away because he knew my titan and very large fleet would hit his worlds...by the time he could safely move his fleet, his team had lost the other 2 fronts...

I think the third game is the most important, because this situation most favored the attackers (closer and higher skill) and still showed that prolonged survival is totally possible...all three games have shown that what the suicide player does can largely determine the outcome of the game, and death or loss of the HW is most certainly not inevitable...

Btw, 2 of the suicide plays had the suicide player as Advent (first game might have been Oli as Advent as well)...in none of the cases did the suicide player rush culture...

you quoted out of context, let me help you...

make them for culture too ofc,,,but early game its moronic