If the Starbase has its own build queue (like a planet), then you can build it up more quickly by rush building the upgrade modules. That'd let you get what you want if you're willing to pay for it, only you're paying in credits instead of in having to build 10 constructors and move them all over.

That's what I'd like to see. Create the Starbase with a constructor, then give it a build queue and let it work independently. A tech upgrade could increase it's building speed, it could benefit from miniaturization tech (assuming that still exists), and you could give Starbase specific things to build on it for mining/influence/fleet repair/etc.

No, they didn't. Not even close. I think they did pretty well in the base game, but the expansions definitely made them sub-par.

From my current game: a fully maxed out military starbase has 75/65/65 attack, 352/352/352 defense, and 86 HP (with fully researched Thalan tech tree, and every tech buyable or stealable from everyone else). That's 67 total modules installed on the base hull, although I forgot to write down how many are dedicated to ship support and how many are solely base fortification. Maybe later.

A single huge hull starts at 90 HP, and has 250 missiles (10 Nightmare Torpedo launchers), 160 armor ( 16 Zero Point Armor), 26 speed (2 base and 4 Stellar Folders at 6 points each), a Kill Zone Computer (+50% weapons, not included in the base attack number), and 8 extra HP (1 Integrity Grid). That's base, with a third of the hull wasted on engines and hit points, and more defense than is really needed. Don't ask what level of miniaturization is required for that, it's pretty high but doable by stealing a couple Hyperion Shrinkers from other empires. The ship described is actually two shrinkers behind my current ability, I just haven't designed a newer model to use that hull space yet. My current huge hulls have over 400 slots for modules, these were made at 387 or so.

Counting things like the +60% planet I built it on, several military resource starbases at +60% each, and a lot of tech that give passive bonuses, that ship really has 33 speed, 819 missiles, 705 armor, and 242 HP. Any one of those ships could eat the starbase for breakfast, and I can gang 9 of them up with a flagship model that has a +3 fleet speed module, a +30% fleet defense module, and far more armor in place of most of the weapons. The flagship tanks all incoming fire, so the other ships never even get hit.

The problems:

 * Starbases all worked on predefined base modules rather than repeatable modules we could put on ships. You couldn't have 10 nightmare torpedo launchers, you got 1.

 * Starbases did not benefit from empire bonuses, no matter what source. Mining resources, passive techs, nearby military starbases, etc. were all ignored when calculating starbase stats.

That still doesn't match the ability to drop a full starbase in one turn. In GC2 terms: I can throw 11 constructors at an undefended resource and have a mining starbase at +60% the same turn. A planet style build queue, even rush buying, would take up to 10 turns to get to the same point, the speed of the build queue determining how many (if any) modules get built while I'm buying the others. That, of course, is if the modules aren't the linear upgrades from GC2, where having one module completed was a requirement to add the next. If so, it would take the maximum of 10 turns unless one of the modules (starting with the second) could be completed in one turn.

The constructor spam is what I would consider good micromanagement. Build exactly how many you need, get them assembled at the right place and time, and build exactly what you need. Locking players out of that level of flexibility in the interest of streamlining is a great way to ruin what was otherwise a reasonably strategic part of the game. I have to repeat: slow build would suck.

I mostly agree with keeping the starbase upgrade system that GCII had for GCIII. The only thing I'd really like changed about it would be to have an easier way to order up the constructors required to upgrade the station.

Maybe I missed out on the expansion that had emphasis on star bases, probably why I created this new model... rally points would fix the issue nicely like you suggested. I am huge on concept art, that is why I elaborated this way. Anyways I guess nobody agrees that this model was a good idea, so dust to ashes. The base game didn't have star bases like Twilight of the Arnor or whatever they call it. Then again maybe I can support other peoples ideas by crafting concept art for them.

Well, in Endless Space you can rush build as many things in a turn as you can afford, so it wouldn't necessarily take more than one turn.

But it probably should. Spamming constructors and then having a fully upgraded Starbase just appear out of nowhere is silly. Also, constructor spam is tedious and annoying, not good micro. It was one of the worst things in GC2. (IMO of course, but then what in this thread isn't?)

Those values for defense and HP are not the base ones, but modified by your Defense and HP abilities. Without those modifiers, the HP is 42, and the defense is 51 in all categories (75 of you're playing the Thalan and managed to buy the Starbase Fortification techs). Also, your missing the Shredder module from the Korx. That adds another 20 to the damage of your starbase's beam weapons.

There are 28 base defense modules, plus 2 from the Korx, and one from the Thalan. The Thalan one, however, cannot be bought (or stolen), so you would need to play as them to get it.

As I mentioned above, your Defense and HP ability bonuses do apply.

I'm assuming u r going off the title I actually would like the starbases to do more. I don't want to have to build starbases though. I don't think I should have to trade for other techs to make my own modules though. I wouldn't mind haveing a choice between planets and starbases stradegy. That would at least help out the small and the underpowered races that don't have planets. making it a more fair game for people who get encroached. We would need the Ai's tp be able to handle this. Also I would like to have an economic option for economic starbases. This is annoying that I can't do this when I need to.

IMO, spamming constructors was the only way to keep a new Starbase from getting destroyed by your enemy. If you destroyed an enemy's resource SB and wanted to use that resource right away, you had to be able to build up its defenses FAST.

We could do it this way just remember the planetary improvements would have to be dependent on population. You're probably not going to have stock exanges on a station with 7 people. U probably r not going to have a munufacturing complex on a station of 7 people. U wouldn't have a central mine on a space station. The space station is probably not going to have a population more than 1 million. If u have more than that cite the movie and station. This would affect production and economics on the station. It would affect defence on the planet, and for support of a fleet. In a zero g environment this would affect production.

But unless this is self sufficient it would cost to support. So I guess farms would ge a cinsideration. Most of the people would not have spaceships. This is based on how many planes a carrier would have compared to an air base, but if u wuold like just notice that noone else usually have soaceships on spacestations. U could look at the international space station which only has a permanent escape pod. If u were going to counter this u would have to cite the source. So in order to go outside u would either need a tether line or a rocket pack. This would probably depend on how expensive u want to make this. U could make it this way bet it would still be different than a planet.

Seriously do u not watch startrek or watch space programs/ Star trek has a lot of random stuff. Nasa is always showing stuff they found lying around in space. It would be very realistic to find compounds that would change things besides a lot of stuff is created because of precursors.

Star Trek is hardly science fact.

What once u had the +3 weapons the Ai's wasn't beating them. That seemed feasible to me for 400 Bc. I would like to see one thing different though. Allow multiple construction modules to add multiple modules to starbasses. Oh the dissapointment when I tried that.

My question what do u mean by miniplanet, because if a small planet has a planet quality of 1 then a miniplanet couldn't build anything. If u meant earthlike then that would make more sense since they have a pq from 10 to 15. Giving a mini planet a pq of about 5. If u take a look at this the current starbase concept is better because U can with trouble load about 7 or eight modules into it giving it more ability. Instead of just 5 building spaces. My biggest problem is not defending these or obtaining resources. But the limitation of what the bases do. One example is the economic starbases. I need to increase my economics I don't have freighters, and right now there r a lot more important techs to research like planetary improvements. I need a economic boost, but when I build an economic starbase there is no module to be found. I've pnly realised recently that the influence starbase would be my best bet in this case.

My only other issue that after a few miniturization techs or large hulls I start wanting to load more modules on the ship only to find out it doesn't make a difference how much modules u have it upgrades the same.

Ok I'm game can U explain how this is realistic. I'm assuming that instead of sending the modules into space like the soviets did with the Mir space station. U r talking about the International space station where we built the modules in space. Remember we built 72 pieces to 1 of our modules on earth, and assembled the pieces with the help of the space shuttle. The closest to this meaning we would either have a reusable constructure that would go back and forth between the planet, and the space station 504 times; because, there were 7 modules. This could be augemented by multiple constructures. Or u could have a manufactureing ship that would need a pretty constant supply line. This is not simpler. This would be a cheaper option, but as a gamer I would rather the option the way the game does it.

I guess that means I'm in the minority to. I always say we should make better, but the system works. Its a good game.

So what do you consider science fact?

Well I play the immense map, and it baffles me when I hear things like the Ai out researching u. I will give u this is true with the Thalans, but with everyone else between research and trading I come out on top in the tech department. If I have to get into an arms race with the Ai; I say bring it on. They lose most of the time.

Finally some else knows how to reasonably use this system.

[quote who="WIllythemailboy" reply="27" id="3411112"]

Quoting Lucky Jack, reply 25


Quoting wuphonsreach,
reply 14
- Starbase tech didn't keep up with ship advances. A starbase (in my mind) should be competitive with even the largest ship hulls if you invest the constructors into upgrading it. In my mind, a military starbase should be able to fend off multiple of the largest ships. Why do you say that? GC2's Starbase hulls were much bigger than the largest possible ship hull to begin with. And I have had starbases fend off multiple attacks from very large, very high tech ships. 'Course, those starbases also had the highest offense and defense modules that the tech tree provided. No, they didn't. Not even close. I think they did pretty well in the base game, but the expansions definitely made them sub-par.

Actually after all the games I'd play of Galactic civilizations3 since 2007 I've only seen the Ai build ships bigger than medium hulls twice, so as far as I'm concern I don't need to worry about ships bigger than medium hulls. Anything else is a theory that never happens. wuphonsreach would be talking about the Ai with none thing bigger than a medium building.

On the other hand we r also talking about the Dread lords; since they r on the game. They only attack 1 ship at a time. After u put 3 attack and defence modules on your starbases they couldn't destroy the starbase.

Now if we r talking about U; u r using a ship that no Ai is going to build, and I can garantee u that they aren't going to be that effective at biolding starbases. If u ask me I'm usually so busy building resource starbases that I almost never more than 7 or 8 modules on a starbase.

it's pretty high but doable by stealing a couple Hyperion Shrinkers from other empires.

There is really none thing that u can do about this; basically this doesn't count. Also tech stealing and trading u can't take into account; unless, u can garantee me that all the Ai's could do this too.
 
The problems:

 * Starbases all worked on predefined base modules rather than repeatable modules we could put on ships. * Starbases did not benefit from empire bonuses

I sgree with the above section.

An important consideration is can the Ai handle this. If the Ai builds this ship then this would be important. Your consideration is only important if u r fighting another human player. I'm also going to say that I've seen the largest ships that the Dread lords and the Thalans have thrown against me with researching resonable number of starbase techs. With 7 or 8 modules; this would also make me wrong according to u.

     So I'm guessing that u r disagreeing with me that there r not strange sites laying around in space. I'm guessing to make that assertion means u have a degree in astronomy. I'm guessing that playing Galactic civilizations is not like playing Startrek. That is what u just said, but judging from your response I can tell U don't know much about. I know from watching programs on Star trek that Gene rodenberry went to Nasa to be briefed on his programs. I know from watching programs that Rodenberry studios went to Nasa to make the movie into darkness. This is science.

     Nasa just failed at building a warp engine, so that's not science. Now that I read all the posts this is my opinion. I can't see how changing the way U build starbases r going to leave me with superior starbases, and that is what matters to me. We need to make sure that we r not trying to just make things easier. That should never be the object of playing a game.

What difficulty are you playing on? Unless you know what you're doing, you will have a hard time keeping up with the AI on the higher difficulty levels.

Seriously, what difficulty are you playing on? When playing on Immense maps, the AI almost always reaches large hulls and bigger in my games. That was even before I fixed the bugs in the tech trees.

Really? A starbase with 6/6/6 in damage, 5/5/5 in defense (Battle Stations plus all six modules from Starbase Fortifications) and 42 HP is going to defeat a Dread Lord? One of their scouts alone has a damage rating of 110. A frigate has one of 277 and 47 HP. No way in hell is that starbase going to win. (I was even more generous with the starbase defenses, and used seven defense modules instead of the three you stated.)

As I said in my previous post, the bolded part is not true for Defense and HP bonuses.

That means 8 modules, just for the damage. It's not even close to the three modules total you stated earlier, and requires much more research (Medium Hulls and Starbase Fortifications II).

However, I still find it very unlikely for the starbase to defeat a Dread Frigate. The frigate will destroy the starbase on the first turn. Even if the retaliation strike of the starbase is high enough to destroy the ship, the Dread Frigate will still survive due to the tie rule.

In fact, I just tested this. I opened up a game and used the cheats to summon the Dread Lords. Then, I waited until the DL finished designing their ships. They were using mass drivers this time, instead of beam weapons like usual. So the damage was even higher, because they could fit more weapons on board. Not that that really matters. It's overkill in any case. The frigate also had only 34 HP, instead of the 47 HP like last time, because the DL didn't put any hull plating on it.

I then took control of the next best race (the Arceans) and gave them the necessary techs to build the starbase. The starbase had 55 HP due to the Arcean's HP bonus. I then attacked the starbase with the frigate. The frigate survived with 4 HP left. QED

I found starbases and the huge number of modules to be a bit cheesy.  Lure a bunch of enemy ships into a ship-assist kill zone - hey, the starbases are the ultimate bait! - and tear them apart, then rinse and repeat.  If you have a ridiculously large empire and money to burn you can create a wall in space.

One of the things that I did with my mod was to severely cut back on ship assist modules, bringing them into the game much later in the tech tree and in very small numbers.  It encourages me to be less dependent on cheese and gives an incentive to progress through the weapons techs,