best Cap ship

You're missing the Rankulas and I assume you've missed the Discord (or simply misnumbered the Advent capital ships as "All but Revelation" would result in the Revelation being ranked (6)).

ive been digging the revalation for the advent. the plasma weapons are pretty powerful. for the TEC i like either the marza or i get a lvl 6 donuv for flux field with the TR titan . as for vasari. they ALL kick a$$. 

another reason to like the revalation is guidance. this is VERY useful for titans and other ships that are ability reliant.

Well, you obviously never tried an Akkan start properly, that ship is the second best TEC ship after the Marza, and the best starter with good support abilities.

For the Advent part, how can you rate the Progenitor and the Halcyon to be the same level as Rapture, Discord and the Radiance? rapture is a useless ship, Discord runs out of antimatter too fast and the radiance does not have sufficient firepower to be a good starter, only useful when enemy titans are deployed.

Vasari is just like my rating.

Okay, where do I begin here...

The so-called "useless" Rapture is an excellent Advent cap ship, you just obviously haven't played Advent enough to value it.  When I play Advent, I always start with a Progenitor, but depending on how the game is going I will debate between a Halcyon or Rapture as my second cap ship (which is usually always after my titan).  

What deserves the title of "useless" is the Discord.  Its abilities use too much antimatter, their duration is horribly short, and the ship itself is relatively easy to destroy seeing as it really provides little to no fleet support.  

Allowing the discord's aoe ability to hurt fighters and bombers would do a lot to improving it's usefulness.

I do not really find it useful, not even against AI, I know in theory it has nice abilities, but they do not make me choose that ship over Halcyon, Progenitor or Radiance. Obviously I haven't played too much Advent online, I am a TR player, but sometimes I play AR, or AL, more often I choose them against AI, so I played with every capital ship they have and know their strengths and weaknesses somewhat. Rapture needs to reach higher levels, and online it is not very easy to achieve (especially against OP Vasari bombers..)

true, but many players would cry OP instantly.. Anyway, are developers aware of the Discord's current state as a useless warship?

Maybe maybe not. Then again the Kol been useless for so long yet we've got nothing on it...

So don't hold your breath.

True, but what the hell is the reason for it? the KOL is the symbol of this game, and it is the worst TEC capitalship?... Why do devs ignore capitalships this much?

Because there are bigger fish to fry than problems with cap ships.  Let me ask you this: Would you rather have the KOL's ineffectiveness fixed or VR's starbases stopped from jumping to any planet?  

I feel cap ships are fine the way they are.  If you know how to use them properly, they are all effective in their own way.  Yes, there could be some minor improvements for the cap ships that you practically never see online (KOL, Discord, Dunov, etc.), but for the first time since I can remember, NOTHING IS BANNED ON MULTIPLAYER!!  Which means the devs have done a good job.  Yes, there are still minor tweeks (like Destra Ruthlessness not affecting vettes), but those are getting fixed slowly but surely.  I think that we're just trying to find problems right now that don't need to be fixed when it comes to cap ships.  

It wouldn't be OP. Psionic Scream is a frontal blast. Only carelessly attacking the Discord from the front with a single dense cloud of strikecraft would result in their obliteration. Skilled players in multiplayer would just split up their bombers and attack from different directions, and the Discord can't turn fast enough to catch a lot of them in its scream.

And Vasari bombers would still survive a level 1 Scream.

And its existing disable-abilities effect is useless because of its short duration and the fact that it cannot interrupt channelling abilities.

I don't get why the Rankulas and Discord are even classified as battleships anyway. They're more fleet support and don't have the single-combat power and tankiness of the 3 real battleships. They're more like battlecruisers in my opinion.

I think the Rapture would be better off if Vengeance targetted all friendly ships in range rather than just one. That might be OP but ranges and/or damage retaliation percents could be changed to make it a good ability.

I love watching bombers destroy themselves when they attack my ship that's got Vengeance cast on it.

Hm I know, but still, this is an issue that has not been solved for many years and would only need minor changes like make the forcefield passive, and still, nothing is done to improve that awesome looking noob-starter capital ship

It's true, though Vasari is still much more powerful than they should be, not the "I am retreating from an invincible enemy" type of race it should be. They should be guerilla like race that could not hold on it's own in fleetVSfleet, but they have the best military and almost as good eco as TEC, so.. i don't really feel that banning is really solved..

My bad, I forgot that this is a frontal stuff, I never really use that ship, sorry. That way it would be nice that it affected SC.

My rating:

TEC:

1. Akkan: Best colony cap and durable enough to handle any militia on its own.
2. Marza: Enough firepower to ruin the day of any milita and awesome Ultimate Ability. This is how space junk is born!
3. Dunov: Shield Restore is awesome and can rescue important ships on a regular base. Its other abilities pale but are still usefull.
4. Sova: Missile Batteries can help divide enemy firepower, Embargo was very deadly before Rebellion, general usefullness of strike craft
5. Corsev: Still worth building.... due to enormous tankiness. Will divide enemy firepower and never ever die.
6. Kol: Flak Burst is the only redeeming quality.

Advent:

1. Halycon Carrier: Amplify Energy Aura is huge, so are up to 12 squadrons of bombers. Telekinetic push lacks damage to be of much use in later stages of the game.
2. Discord: How can you rate this so weak? Forget Psionic Scream.... Fracture reduces the armor of enemy ships by up to 5 points..... watch enemy Titans melt like butter in the sun afterwards. Lethargy does affect Titans, too..... up to 50 % ability cooldown increase and 25 % weapon cooldown increase make it significant easier for your fleet to survive the onlslaught of enemy titans.
3. Progenitor: Worst colony ship, no firepower,  no durability and weak colony bonuses. Shield Regeneration is very helpful against TEC but worthless against Vasari. Malice has a targert cap of 24.... minor annoyance.
4. Rapture: Concentration aura is a must have for bomber fleets. Now... since fighters are worthless.... Vertigo does help, too.
5. Revelation: Reverie is wonderful to keep that dreaded Kortul from ruining your day. Provoke hysteria is awesome for annoying human players on high population planets. And the effect is frightening.
6. Radiance: If it wasnt for the AM draining ability.... I cannot think of any reason to ever build that capital ship. Its ultimate is pathetic, its firepower lousy and it is quite on the fragile side.

Vasari: coming tomorrow

I fail to see how Shield Restore can be awesome while Shield Regen is very helpful to worthless. Granted, Shield Restore isn't drawn out like Shield Regen but Regen has other benefits. Just my thoughts though.

no

The issue is not the ability itself, the issue is the ships affected by the ability.

TEC shields are weak, they usually will go down in no time. Which isnt that bad, because TEC does have hefty armor and hull upgrades that grant their ships significant survivability. So for a TEC ship having it shield restored means several seconds of less firepower on the hull.... often less enough to be mitigated by repairs.

Advent on the other hand have shields of excessive power but lackluster hull and amor values. Making them much more vulnerable to phase weapons. It is not a uncommon sight to see Advent capital ships and titans die with thousands of shield points remaining. If your titan does blow up with 10000 shield points left or 11000 shield points left doesnt make a difference. Hence the lower rating for the Progenitor.

Simple said: TEC ships rarely die with shields up.... their hulls are too durable for their weak shields to allow that to happen. So a TEC ship dying will face impact on its hull..... and Advent ship might face only shield impacts but the shield piercing firepower makes short work of the craft.

Explain your opinion please?

Vasari Capital Ships:

1. Kortul Devastator: The only true capitalship of Sins, the Kortul reigns supreme when it comes to pure combat power. Disruptive Strikes is the most powerful AM draining ability of the game due to being a passive and this comes in combination with Power Surge who not only brings the Kortuls firepower  close to Titan levels but also makes the ship nearly unkillable. Last but not least the ability Jam Weapons at least temporarly hinders the advance of enemy strike craft, giving the Kortul even more time to deplete hostile antimatter. Volatile Nanites is just the ice on the cake.
2. Jarrasul Evacuator: Nano Disassembler does cause significant amounts of hull damage and armor reduction. This ability may very well make the Jarrasul the only ship capable of getting toe to toe with a Kortul and standing a winning chance. Gravity warhead will make sure that no capital ship can flee from its destruction. Drain planet looks hilarious. All those cool abilities more than compensate for the only average colony founding.
3. Skirantra Carrier: Repair Cloud is imperative for a Vasari fleet. Maxing out at 30 hull points/sec (the equivalent of 120 shield points, even without armor) it helps a lot to keep the fleet alive. Remaining abilities are rather unimpressive, however the ship can have several squadron of phase missile bombers.
4. Vulkoras Desolator: Deploy Siege Platform is most annoying for the enemy and makes short work out of planets, without hindering fleet movement. Disintegration further enhances the already ruthless combat potential.
5. Antorak Marauder: Yes its firepower sucks but Phase out hull can either rescue one of your own capital ships or lock down hostile ones for significant amounts of time. Distort Gravity not only increases the already unrivaled Vasari mobility, but also make your fleet immune to phase jump inhibitors.... something not to be underestimated when in need of a hasty retreat. Stabilize Phase Space make your fleet indepenent of the Vorastras - slow - recharging Phase Gate drop, respectively allows you to jump in a little Orky surprise for your enemy.
6. Rankulas Battleship: Personally I feel its nanites act more like strike craft to a carrier ship. The support swarm might come in handy..... but then Overseers will likely do a much better job.

I Know you dislike my rating for the akkan but take this into mind. I don't often play as the TEC. More often I play as the advent or the vasari .

Please play some multiplayer Aresiv... you obviously don't know how powerful shield regen and malice are in light frigate/early game battles. Malice alone turns illums from being soft countered by vettes to being a HARD counter to vettes. 

Also, the concerns about phase missiles are entirely overblown... I too jumped on the PM OP bandwagon before I realized they weren't that big of an issue (slight nerf is needed though).

Again, if you played multiplayer you would understand all this. There must come a point when you have to test your ideas in the actual environment. IMO you spend too much time theory-crafting and not enough actual playing.

huh! The prog is one of the best starting capital ships. Most people get it exactly for Malice and then Shield Restore for late game to support a Titan. I've destroyed so many fleets with Malice in the early game- especially if I have corvette support.

The only other ship I see built first is the Radiance, hardly ever see a Halcyon.

Akkan and Marza are the only viable starting capital ships unless your KoK.

Vasari can get away with about anything starting off (excluding the Marauder).

Da fuq.

Your arguments seem to be very late-game centric and fight-the-Vasari centric, and as you can see are sort of a devil's advocate PoV. Holistically the Progen is a brilliant ship IMO. It's a great starter - it colonizes (maybe not as well as Akkan but cheaper civ infrastructure is nice still), both Malice and Shield Regen are great against TEC's Cobalts/vettes and Marza, it solos the militia with very little effort, and Shield Regen is great when pounding down a low-level Orkulus with your Disciple mob. Later on Shield Regen remains useful and Malice is just awesome to combine with Chastic Burst or Unity Mass. And the combined firepower of itself and its resident strikecraft is not bad.

Personally I tend to find that both starting Akkan as TEC and Progen as Advent has the capital ship go off soloing militia around juicy planets while the frigates go off in another direction. At the end of a colonization spree, the Akkan will have weak shields and a partially battered hull slowly repairing... while the Progen has taken little hull damage if any and its shields rapidly regenerate (more so if you grab a point in Shield Regen), and so it's up to full strength very quickly. I personally find that this makes up for the fact that it is more fragile than the Akkan and Jarrasul in terms of straight-up effective hp.

Prog is strong as an offensive cap from level 1, its a colonizer which destroys entire fleets alone and with chastic burst/unity mass combos.

It's shield regen is also impressive against a tec player.

A level 6 marza is in its own class and has more fire-power than any low level titan against frigates and i consider this cap to be a titan past level 5.

A kortul can be unstoppable without interrupts and clears entire desert planets of militia.  

all of this makes me want to mod the damn caps to what they should be! F*CKING EVIL! the discord is pretty good. against smaller ships. kodiaks its worthless. even 2 of them working side by side. the rapture is NOT to be underestimated.  concentration aura is very useful late game when peopel are going crazy with strike craft. vertigo is is useful for messing with enemy direct firepower (aka cobalts/kodiaks/ not strike craft or abilities) and vengeance is EVIL when used correctly. overall all the advent caps are very good. 

for the vasari everything they have is evil for caps when used correctly. i think my current fav is a rankulas and skiranta combo. get bot to lvl 6. SPAM nanites make a greater nanite. than clone the greater nanite. enjoy making lots of pain! another thing that is effective is cloning assault Nanites. watch as structures get murdered. right now my favorite single cap right now is the skiranta. it can heal itself. and do un godly early game bomber spams. keep all fighter on carrier. and use scramble bombers. pretty effective.

for the TEC obviously the marza is number 1. the sova is nice. good for early game. get embargo rush to their home and use it. thus killing their income well giving u a boost.

I love when I max concentration aura and start using the Rapture's ultimate to just steal carriers. Couple that with the Coronata's Subjugation ability and I'm running my fleet so far negative it's ridiculous (not to mention my mixed fleet of TEC, Vasari and Advent ships).

I will say that I like the Antorak for the Vasari too. I love being able to send it off on it's own then call in my whole fleet that's sitting on a border world as a defensive asset. Or, even better, is when I'm out laying waste to the enemy and then I get attacked. I just have to make sure I make the jump before my phase stabilizer gets taken out.

Interesting conversation.  But, I'd have to say that the all of the Colony Caps are almost a required first choice (Akkan, Progenitor, Egg).  Why?  Well, because each are a well rounded ship, that makes colonization so much easier.  Colony frigates are just not cut out for the task - they need better antimatter capabilities.  You can't colonize more than 2 jumps out without the frigates taking long, unacceptable delays.

Ofcourse, if you can get a Marza to level 6, then it is worth it.  Then your enemy needs to think about adding a Cap ship with a good interupt.  And once titans are out, Dunovs, Radiances and Kortuls are essential.