I don't like the upgrade cap on starbases

it is EASY to create a simple mod that does  the effectively same thing.

the steps are

1 either create OR download a set of reference(these are supplied either by converting a COPY of the game files to txt mode OR downloading an archive containing the converted files) files for the sins (entrenchment/diplomacy use the entrenchment refs)(rebellion use rebellion refs) version that you are playing

2 in the mods folder for the expansion AND version, create a NEW folder of the mod name, inside the folder create a NEW folder of the name 'GameInfo'

3 from your reference files in the'GameInfo' folder find AND copy all the 'StarBase(race).entity' files to the mod's gameinfo folder

4 for EACH of the 'StarBase(race).entity files edit it in a SIMPLE TEXT EDITOR like notpad or notepad++ and look for a line containing 'maxUpgradeLevelCount ' with a number at the end, change the number to 24 or larger (tec has 24 upgrades for starbase, vasari & advent only have (from memory 22) save the file.

when you have done each of the 'StarBase(race).entity' files you can then start your sins game go to the mods, enable your new mod and apply it then PLAY with the mod

and congratulations you are NOW a modder

harpo

EDIT: the God of the Mod (Harpo) showed up before me (I knew I should've posted before I ate breakfast). See his post as it is better than anything I will ever tell you.

I didn't ask for a mod or to become a modder (although I have the expertise to become one I don't want to) ... I would like to play online against AI's with better starbases, right now they're just not good enough to handle even a small group of torpedo ships.

Alternative, if I could scuttle my merchant bays and upgrade with fighter bays that would also work, but what's the point of that ... it's easier imo to just increase the number of upgrades. If necessary, make it a costly leveled research upgrade. Eg. [1/4] +1 starbase upgrade, 2500/250/350, [2/4] +1 starbase upgrade, 4000/350/550, [3/4] +2 starbase upgrades, 8000/600/950. [4/4] +2 starbase upgrades, 12000/1150/1300.

You you could make it so costly that such upgrades are really only useful in games against AI's.

They arn't suppose to. Torpedo ships are suppose to be the counterplay. If we buffed them so that they are good against everything that'll only just promote bomber spam even more. Even if we gave SBs all the upgrades it still wouldn't make them good against torpedo ships since they outrange all SBs.

SBs arn't suppose to be an all in one defense.

You either mod it and give every one of your friends the mod so you can play online with the mod, or just deal with it.

I know and they can't be. But the AI sends lots of small fleets everywhere with those torpedo ships and that's just horrible.

Starbases shouldn't fall victim to small fleets, period. Large fleets? Fine! Small fleets? Terrible.

The only thing you can do with additonal upgrades, is to upgrade a few hangar bays to build bombers. That does not influence any big battle. It only serves to destroy a small fleet, nothing more.

Late game, when the AI has 2000 ships, the Starbase + defenses are COMPLETELY and UTTERLY useless for any form of defense anywhere on the map against almost any sized fleet. The AI sends 5 torpedo ships and a few escort ships? It's GONE ! Your whole defense is GONE.

Note: I was playing TEC.

Note to self: or I could play Vasari like everyone else.

Note to self 2: or I could place some ships there for extra support.

Well actually I was losing the battle quite badly and I was a bit upset that my last hope, the twin starbases, were obliterated like paper toys by this tiny fleet while I had to send the remnants of my fleet to the main battle, which I also lost. The starbase there didn't make a difference either.

Anyway I don't understand your complaints about this really. Starbase upgrades are really very expensive, and if such research is also expensive than it will hardly affect online multiplayer games, where defenses make little difference anyway because the players stay far away from them (they only work against stupid AIs, they act like a magnet to the AI ships).

Christ you again and going the whole Vasari thing again.

It's called a defense fleet. I am pretty sure you can at least spare a few LRMs or Colbalts to kill torpedo ships. If you just left the starbase all on it's own without any other support than that's your problem not the games. Defenses are a delaying action for fleets to respond. Get hanger defenses and repair bays if their so annoying.

Oh and another thing. I don't think you understand the game well enough if you're getting pounded by an AI of all things to suggest such a change. You're consistently asking for changes that be solved with just a small bit of micromanagement. Rather you just complain how the Vasari is OP and how the game should be made easier on you. You don't need a competitive mulitplayer guy to do a small bit of micro.

I really don't understand why you are so upset about this. It will only make it a little more useful against really small fleets, it has little impact on larger battles.

It's almost like a bunch of Al-Queda terrorists who manage to destroy the Pentagon with almost no effort... oh wait, that nearly happened in reality

I concede.

The problem lies in that you're asking for a change that so easily solved by performing one action. And doesn't require any changes to the SB to do. Why does the SB need to be more effective against small fleets? It already is. Just your inability to send even 10 light frigates and let torpedo cruisers kill you off is the problem not SB design.

And don't even try to sit on the high chair when you yourself have ranted so much.

I was loosing and couldn't spare any ships. On that frontier world, I only had 2 starbases and maybe 2 hangar bays and some repair bays, that wasn't enough. It was a dwarf planet, I couldn't place many additionaly defenses. I lost over 30K of investment there against a tiny fleet ... which is annoying, no matter how you put it. And you're saying that I should've put an additional 5 carriers there, which would've cost me another 5K and about 50 fleet supply just for some kind of static defense, and really I need a fleet to defend my defenses even against minor nuisances ... it's just hilarious.

Well anyway, I've changed the title from "request blablabla" to "I dont like blablabla", I hope that makes you feel better.

And I'll stop complaining about it as well. Promised.

When did I say 5 additional carriers? I said a couple Colbalts or LRMs. You really couldn't afford 5-10 more frigates? If you were in a losing situation you should have just retreated anyways not lose in that one battle.

Your 30k investment was only lost because they ran the hardcounter to your defense. Plain and simple. If you don't feel like working to defend against the hardcounter to defensive structures...

No I couldn't. I didn't have that many planets and my shipyards were about 4 jumps away. And what I had, I needed for the other battle. And my starbases had no construction bays, because I used the upgrades for armor, weapons and trade. And the dwarf planet had no slots left (broadcast centers...). You know... just that extra upgrade for a construction bay, or for an extra fighter bay, could've made it easier. It would've cost a lot (as much as a few frigates) I suppose, so it doesn't make a big difference resource-wise. Or maybe I should've made a frigate factory there instead of only the boradcast centers... maybe that was my biggest mistake, I hadn't thought of that actually...

Based on the amount of terrible ideas and suggestions you have produced on this forum, the sense of entitlement that you feel for others to help you, and your unwillingnness to learn the basics of sins gameplay, I can only conclude you are a 

Sure... and the multiplayer community is partly responsible for requesting insane things like 2 bombers per carrier ... great job, community! Great job at being happy with a fucking boring first half our where you can't do any fucking upgrades because it'll mean you've lost. Great job at being so fucking happy with it. Great job as pestering people who try to suggest that defenses could be just a teeny weeny little bit better and squashing them to pulp. Great job, really great.

Also yeah ... great help your are, telling me to just build ships for half an hour. Or telling me to build ships to defend my fucking starbase because otherwise it'll get beaten by a few bombers of torpedo cruisers. Yes great advice on how to tackle that weakness.

Yes, you can be really proud of yourselves.

And I suppose I'm really starting to act like a troll now ... I'd better leave before it gets even worse

And I'm not upset ... just a bit sad. 

I don't see what's the problem of building ships to defend the Starbase?

The SB has very specific weaknesses built into it for counterplay. The logical decision is to build something else to cover for said weakness. I don't see the problem of building a small group of frigates to cover for a SB's weakness so they would have to bring a significant force to win over it. Does the idea of building a defense fleet along with your SB rub you in the wrong way or what?

Because nobody right now is understanding your logic of things at all. I am not even a hard core multiplayer guy these days... I mostly just play mods.

I see this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

With the "house rules" in question biased strongly towards someone who wants to turtle, hide under their starbases and other static defensive structures, not have to think too much about fleet positionings and mobile strategy, and yet win anyway.

Well the "house rules" are based on a proven fact that if your turtle at least in multiplayer you will lose. Guaranteed pretty much 100%. While being very abusable against AI. However Geoman's problem is that he doesn't want to even try to play against one of the only counters the AI brings against SBs rather he just wants the SB to be buffed.

Sinkillr can be a dick at times that much is true though.

I love that site.

I played against one of the stop having fun guys a couple days ago, lol...

Compare and contrast with "Stop Having Fun" Guys, who are about as annoying to say the least.

? How am I being a dick? I was merely reacting to the fact that geoman rudely dismissed harpos help without so much as a thank you.

EDIT:   And not to toot my own horn here, but if you ever play on ico you would know I'm one of the nicest players around towards noobs. I always defend noobs rights when hosts try to kick, never kick them myself (unless game name says otherwise), and always whisper advice to them before game starts. The only time I'm ever mean to a noob is in-game but that happens very occasionally and everyone is guilty of it. 

And here I was hoping for a design debate on the merits of having a unit be able to be totally upgraded (I.e. capitalships before Rebellion) or having an upgrade cap and thus forcing specialization (one starbase can't do everything). How disappointing.

Its the words and manners in which you say it. Yes GeomanNL is being a "Scrub" (I like that term) but slamming him down makes you a Dick/Jerk.

Mean≠Dick. Also read my edit ryat.

At least make an effort not to sound like one on the forums then.