moi-meme

Hero XP

Hero XP

I mentionned this in a previous post, but have now done some experiments.

It is difficult to level up heroes past level 12 for lack of XP. I started a new game and did an early fight against a bunch of skelettons.

- sovereign with militia, spearmen, sand golem: 12xp for sovereign, 5xp for trrops

- sovereign with militia and another hero: heroes 5xp, troops 2xp

- sovereign, hero, both troops and sans golem: as above

 

Since the sovereign has +10%xp, I guess the real figures are something like 11xp for the combat, divided by the number of heroes.

 

Now,, as I already mentionned, this explains why heroes cannot level up seriously to keep in line with the threat level. It is worth noting that the combat with both heroes and one troop is seriously more difficult than the combat with sovedreign and two troops. More generally, untill level 7 or 8, heroes are always hard pressed in combat. And that always remains true when you keep your troops up to date: current troops are always much more resilient than heroes.

 

I do not know why that XP sharing was set, but it's a bad thing. In particular, it makes having more than two-three heroes worthless, since additionnal heroes won't level up by sheer lack of XP, or they will drag down the XP gain for other heroes.

 

It also means that there shoud not be more than one hero in a given army : this limits the player's choices.

 

I remember that in MoM, it was possible to win by using a hero army, normal armies or a mix. It was usually more difficult to use a pure hero army (as opposed to accept losing replacable trained troops.) I belive that removing that choice is a bad thing, especially since, like on MoM, late game troops are not significantly weaker than level 20 heroes. Just different, with more raw power and less tactical choices.

 

Yves

 

 

75,036 views 58 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting Gandalftheredskin, reply 49

I'd like to see settlements themselves give xp, scaled to level, along with an xp producing building or wonders.

 

Adding an xp spell similar to Alchemy would be helpful, also.

I forget the name but there is an XP spell for heros.  I think it is 100 Mana for 25 XP and can be cast as much as you want.  I know I used it in one game to get a guy from 6 to 7

Reply #52 Top

Quoting DEY123, reply 51

Quoting Gandalftheredskin, reply 49
I'd like to see settlements themselves give xp, scaled to level, along with an xp producing building or wonders.

 

Adding an xp spell similar to Alchemy would be helpful, also.


I forget the name but there is an XP spell for heros.  I think it is 100 Mana for 25 XP and can be cast as much as you want.  I know I used it in one game to get a guy from 6 to 7

 

One of the Destiny spells, it's quite expensive for the return, as leveling works currently.

Reply #53 Top

I would also like to see hero experience looked at. 

 

18 hour game.   Cleared huge map.  For majority of game played with my sovereign in my primary stack with trained troops, no other heroes.  For the last few hours had Csila in the stack due to the awesome auto mass curse (ashwake dragon too for mass afraid..awesome). Reached level 16 or so...  went the warrior attack route, and got the splash damage.   For a level 16 badass, probably highest level hero in the game.. meh.

Anyway, the experience received was always a bit weird.  An epic drake stack with power 900 gave like 80 xp.   Which is about the same as medium earth shrill stack gave earlier in the game.   Dragon eye quest gave like 56 xp. 

 

A) Experienced gained should be a bit more linear, or at least of equivalent benefit.

B) Leveling is too slow in general, and the level up perks are lackluster.

C) Increase the number of perks received - i.e. 2 per level (1 general, 1 tree) or make the perks more significant.  +2 attack, +5 attack, +10 attack or add more combo perks +2 attack and +2 crit chance

D) add more exciting perks - the warrior one that hits all enemies in a line was pretty cool.  Hard to use effectively, but fun.  

E) Possibly have the 'cool' perks add passive benefits too, i.e.  "Use skill for automatic critical hit", "+2 general critical chance"

 

I didn't have an issue with the # of heroes at like 900 fame.   Just that they were either lackluster or I didn't want them taking my sov xp.  With that said, I wanted a few more active stacks to pick up loot.

Reply #54 Top

Quoting jeffreyac1, reply 47

I'd like to see some sort of mechanism to allow heroes the ability to gain xp in cities.

Seems to me making viable administrators could add a layer of options to your heroes, and give you something to do with those 'extra' heroes you don't have an army for.

You are not alone.  There are others who have asked for admins to get experience.

My own suggestion is:

  • Any hero stationed in a city gets +1XP per turn.  (They do get a bland -5% to unrest after all.)
  • Any City Admin perk gets that hero an extra +1 XP per turn when in a city.
  • So with multiple admin perks, a City Admin hero would be getting 3 or more XP per turn, which sounds like a lot but really shouldn't get the admin past level 10 just from sitting behind his desk.

This system will slowly level admins but they will never get the kind of experience your war heroes get - which is totally fine.  I wouldn't expect a desk jockey to be as tough as a warrior or mage.

 

An alternate system I just thought of...  Don't have city admin perks at all, but rather allow a city to have "governor" slot to install the hero into.  The hero would not fight when your city gets attacked.  The bonuses the governor gave the city would increase over time as long as the hero never moved.

 

Reply #55 Top

Quoting ampoliros5, reply 54

Quoting jeffreyac1, reply 47
I'd like to see some sort of mechanism to allow heroes the ability to gain xp in cities.

Seems to me making viable administrators could add a layer of options to your heroes, and give you something to do with those 'extra' heroes you don't have an army for.


You are not alone.  There are others who have asked for admins to get experience.

My own suggestion is:


Any hero stationed in a city gets +1XP per turn.  (They do get a bland -5% to unrest after all.)
Any City Admin perk gets that hero an extra +1 XP per turn when in a city.
So with multiple admin perks, a City Admin hero would be getting 3 or more XP per turn, which sounds like a lot but really shouldn't get the admin past level 10 just from sitting behind his desk.

This system will slowly level admins but they will never get the kind of experience your war heroes get - which is totally fine.  I wouldn't expect a desk jockey to be as tough as a warrior or mage.

 

An alternate system I just thought of...  Don't have city admin perks at all, but rather allow a city to have "governor" slot to install the hero into.  The hero would not fight when your city gets attacked.  The bonuses the governor gave the city would increase over time as long as the hero never moved.

 

k1

This.

or at least, something along these lines.

Reply #56 Top

Perhaps one could also add city quests (random?) that require having a gouvernor, ideally with adminstrative traits, in the city.

Like: Giant spider cave discovered! If you have no admin, you fight it or leave it alone, if you have admin you try to tame them (unit type) or exploit them for silk (gildar) etc.

 

Reply #57 Top

Consider the following change which I suggested back in FE which would make administrators feasible, and also help champions level, albeit slowly. At 3% per season, a champion would gain a level every 34 seasons, so 3 levels every 100 turns. Also consider that the tech to build this isn't available immediately and it requires time to build.

Adv guild in this application would NOT limited to 1 per faction, but 1 per city. Relatively expensive to build changed from 540 to 840 labor cost.

 

Here's what I changed it to (in CoreImprovements.xml) for LH:

 

<ImprovementType InternalName="AdventurersGuild">
    <DisplayName>Adventurer's Guild</DisplayName>
    <Description>Champions gain 3% of a level per season when stationed in a city with an adventurer's guild. </Description>
    <RequiresCity>1</RequiresCity>
    <BarredTerrain>River</BarredTerrain>
    <BarredTerrain>SwampTerrain</BarredTerrain>
    <PreferredTerrain>City</PreferredTerrain>
    <PreferredTerrain>Category:Land</PreferredTerrain>
    <PreferredTerrain>Forest</PreferredTerrain>


    <Prereq>
        <Type>Tech</Type>
        <Attribute>Heroes</Attribute>
    </Prereq>


    <LaborToBuild>840</LaborToBuild>


    <GameModifier>
        <ModType>StationedUnitStatBonus</ModType>
        <StrVal>UnitStat_Experience</StrVal>
        <StrVal2>OnlyChampions</StrVal2>
        <Value>3</Value>
        <Operator>%</Operator>
        <Provides>Champions gain 3% of a level per season when stationed in a city with an adventurer's guild. </Provides>
    </GameModifier>

    <GameModifier>

       <ModType>Resource</ModType>
       <Attribute>Fame</Attribute>
       <Value>20</Value>
       <Provides>+20 Fame</Provides>
    </GameModifier>


    <AIData AIPersonality="AI_General">
        <AIPriority>5</AIPriority>
        <AITag>CommandPost</AITag>
    </AIData>
    <ArtDef>Art_AdventurersGuild</ArtDef>

</ImprovementType>

 

This change would be utterly simple for Stardock to implement. They could literally cut and paste this to replace the Adv Guild in CoreImprovements.xml resulting in useful administrators, and champions that can still have some hope of parity in the later game once the monster lairs have been cleared.

Reply #58 Top


Seems to me by late game status there is less monsters and the only xp sources are the other kingdoms/empires. Maybe addinging a little more xp gain to fighting them instead of realy low amounts in comparison to monsters.

If not that allow fram pools to be left open with existing monster lairs so you may simply not collect the goodies and allow more respawning monsters of that lair to stay active. Whats wrong with a little inner kingdom monster lair? You have options to raze oger/ darkling sites and the like. An active monster lair could be a resource of xp :)