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Different view on ICO

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Different view on ICO

Appeal to devs

from Sins Forums

I want to sum up last 2 months of ICO ....

ICO was almost dead most of the day and on prime time there was possibly a few over 100 of people on it. That was on very good day. Then December sale came and ICO peeps jumped to 700+ people with at least about 200 people playing sins over ICO at any given time during a day. AT the time I am writing this there is 40 people on-line. 

Is it because game is bad??? I do not think so. Main reason is that developers do not want to invest their resources in stable ICO (read ICO without MD, desyncs, lag caused by ICO - I am excluding lag caused by bad CPUs of players and bad internet connections of players in given game).

And their explanation... There isn't enough people playing over ICO to pay up for investment that it would take. But when people come ICO is not stable enough for people to stay.

I think vicious circle of needing players to invest and player numbers not staying high long enough to be worth investing in is looked from wrong perspective. I also think that you really have to love something a lot to stick with it if you get problems so often and most people won't invest their time in something that is bugged.

I also think it is a investment into the future. 

 

Lets assume that ICO is stable (which is not - but we are assuming remember) and lets assume that my short time excursion in programming world taught me anything...

One of things I learned during my short programming adventure is that code was and is recycled to create new programs regularly. It saves time, work load, production costs etc. If code is well written porting same code to new programs will result in smooth execution of it. If not new application will be riddled with holes and bugs that cause program to behave in unexpected and unwanted ways. 

As I understand there is beta for sins of dark age coming out or it was released few weeks ago. And correct me if I am wrong SINS of Dark Age is supposed to be multi player oriented game. 

So with assumptions about stable ICO ICO core could be transferred to SINS of Dark Age. 

Now I do not know how much time if any devs spend on ICO and I do not know what word stability means to them. Lets face it no one and nothing is perfect but in my mind I think I would accept 1% fail ratio. Which means if 1 in 100 games I play ends up with dump I would still call it stable.

In my mind ICO is far to being stable but this is not a rant so please let's not go there.....

So I appeal to developers to look from point where stable code becomes base for other applications. Applications like SINS of a New Age, and any other game that might be on their drawing board.    

38,584 views 35 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JustAnotherName, reply 19

Quoting Turchany, reply 12JustAnotherName

there isn't even anything to measure player skill, even win loss ratio means almost nothing, and played games number is not so reliable as good number in both can be achieved by playing against AI or just friends. First something should be done to measure player skills but this would be too complicated I think..


Have you heard of the game starcraft 2? Check it before you say ranking system is impossible or too complicated. Starcraft 2 is so successful for a good reason.

Sorry I have no idea about so many popular games including this one, I have only heard about there is a game Starcraft but I have never played with it and never even thought about playing it, I rarely feel like trying out a new game even if it is said to be one of the best games of the world. So basically I would need to check every popular game in the world (as i haven't played most of them) to have a better view on things and i have no time for it.

 

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top


I want to sum up last 2 months of ICO ....

ICO was almost dead most of the day and on prime time there was possibly a few over 100 of people on it. That was on very good day. Then December sale came and ICO peeps jumped to 700+ people with at least about 200 people playing sins over ICO at any given time during a day. AT the time I am writing this there is 40 people on-line. 

Is it because game is bad??? I do not think so.

As a newb who got the game for xmas I don't think the game is particularly bad or too unstable (albeit one would think by now they would've fixed the mini dumps).

However, let me sum up my experience with SINs MP; particularly in the last few weeks of January...I see 8 games but cannot join 5 because of password only/ friends only, and dont particularly want to join that comp stomp game. OK (so ICO filters are rubbish), not so bad however, there is a 5s [insert 4s] game on! yay :P. Ok I join...10 minutes later... *this is great, I haven't got kicked yet. We have 6 veterans 4 newbs (including me as one of the noobs)- great that's 10 players we're ready to go. One of the veterans calls out "lets make a 5s skilled game"- host abandons game...veterans make 5s skilled game, rinse repeat...I am finding myself having to grind even getting past the lobby during 5s/4s games. The tribulations of the SIN's noob. :(

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Zyzyfer, reply 27




quoting post

I want to sum up last 2 months of ICO ....

ICO was almost dead most of the day and on prime time there was possibly a few over 100 of people on it. That was on very good day. Then December sale came and ICO peeps jumped to 700+ people with at least about 200 people playing sins over ICO at any given time during a day. AT the time I am writing this there is 40 people on-line. 

Is it because game is bad??? I do not think so.




As a newb who got the game for xmas I don't think the game is particularly bad or too unstable (albeit one would think by now they would've fixed the mini dumps).

However, let me sum up my experience with SINs MP; particularly in the last few weeks of January...I see 8 games but cannot join 5 because of password only/ friends only, and dont particularly want to join that comp stomp game. OK (so ICO filters are rubbish), not so bad however, there is a 5s [insert 4s] game on! yay . Ok I join...10 minutes later... *this is great, I haven't got kicked yet. We have 6 veterans 4 newbs (including me as one of the noobs)- great that's 10 players we're ready to go. One of the veterans calls out "lets make a 5s skilled game"- host abandons game...veterans make 5s skilled game, rinse repeat...I am finding myself having to grind even getting past the lobby during 5s/4s games. The tribulations of the SIN's noob.

 

Which is why for sins multiplayer online to get better, they need a matchmaking system. Without matchmaking , any multiplayer game is doom to fail.

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JustAnotherName, reply 30



Which is why for sins multiplayer online to get better, they need a matchmaking system. Without matchmaking , any multiplayer game is doom to fail.

 

Someone wrote the problem with this, you can do matchmaking but if there aren't enough players online you can make matchmaking forever to be fair, and it won't change anything if there is only a 5s skilled game to choose, and maybe a noob 1v1.

 

Quoting Zyzyfer, reply 27


As a newb who got the game for xmas I don't think the game is particularly bad or too unstable (albeit one would think by now they would've fixed the mini dumps).

However, let me sum up my experience with SINs MP; particularly in the last few weeks of January...I see 8 games but cannot join 5 because of password only/ friends only, and dont particularly want to join that comp stomp game. OK (so ICO filters are rubbish), not so bad however, there is a 5s [insert 4s] game on! yay . Ok I join...10 minutes later... *this is great, I haven't got kicked yet. We have 6 veterans 4 newbs (including me as one of the noobs)- great that's 10 players we're ready to go. One of the veterans calls out "lets make a 5s skilled game"- host abandons game...veterans make 5s skilled game, rinse repeat...I am finding myself having to grind even getting past the lobby during 5s/4s games. The tribulations of the SIN's noob.

 

I am not a noob now I think but still end up having this problem like you, what if I don't want a 5s as it is a bit big and individual efforts are not that important here (no matter how i do if the other frontline ends up defeated before i can make the breakthrough..)? I really hate to see there is 10-20 games and I can practically join only a 5s game as every other game is full, or password only, or friend only, or maybe a comp stomp I will never do online, because I don't trust the players who do that, they are more likely to be silent all game and not helping you at all, letting you struggle all game having no fun at all.

Oh and i know i can host a game but noone will join, or the skill level will be so strange even God couldn't make a fair match from that, THIS is the problem, so let there be matchmaking even that won't improve the situation more, because I don't think before SINS2 the community will grow at a big level.. And player skill variety will be the same, as not a bunch of players want to try online, and if they try, they see no games to join, or many games they are not allowed to get in, and this is very discouraging.

Another thing, match making, on what should it be based on? Win loss ratio? or a completely new stat?

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Turchany, reply 31



Quoting JustAnotherName,
reply 30



Which is why for sins multiplayer online to get better, they need a matchmaking system. Without matchmaking , any multiplayer game is doom to fail.


 

Someone wrote the problem with this, you can do matchmaking but if there aren't enough players online you can make matchmaking forever to be fair, and it won't change anything if there is only a 5s skilled game to choose, and maybe a noob 1v1.

 




Quoting Zyzyfer,
reply 27


As a newb who got the game for xmas I don't think the game is particularly bad or too unstable (albeit one would think by now they would've fixed the mini dumps).

However, let me sum up my experience with SINs MP; particularly in the last few weeks of January...I see 8 games but cannot join 5 because of password only/ friends only, and dont particularly want to join that comp stomp game. OK (so ICO filters are rubbish), not so bad however, there is a 5s [insert 4s] game on! yay . Ok I join...10 minutes later... *this is great, I haven't got kicked yet. We have 6 veterans 4 newbs (including me as one of the noobs)- great that's 10 players we're ready to go. One of the veterans calls out "lets make a 5s skilled game"- host abandons game...veterans make 5s skilled game, rinse repeat...I am finding myself having to grind even getting past the lobby during 5s/4s games. The tribulations of the SIN's noob.


 

I am not a noob now I think but still end up having this problem like you, what if I don't want a 5s as it is a bit big and individual efforts are not that important here (no matter how i do if the other frontline ends up defeated before i can make the breakthrough..)? I really hate to see there is 10-20 games and I can practically join only a 5s game as every other game is full, or password only, or friend only, or maybe a comp stomp I will never do online, because I don't trust the players who do that, they are more likely to be silent all game and not helping you at all, letting you struggle all game having no fun at all.

Oh and i know i can host a game but noone will join, or the skill level will be so strange even God couldn't make a fair match from that, THIS is the problem, so let there be matchmaking even that won't improve the situation more, because I don't think before SINS2 the community will grow at a big level.. And player skill variety will be the same, as not a bunch of players want to try online, and if they try, they see no games to join, or many games they are not allowed to get in, and this is very discouraging.

Another thing, match making, on what should it be based on? Win loss ratio? or a completely new stat?

Obviously you still don't get it. 95% or more players left the multiplayer scene because it takes too long to start a game. But if matchmaking was there in the first place, this problem will be minimal.

Check starcraft 2 system to get a clue how a good ranking works. It is not too accurate for team vs team but then its still a decent one. Way better than sitting in the lobby for hours waiting for a game to start. Mind you, captain pick are often very imbalance as well but why do players still go ahead with it? Because thats about the best thing we can do to balance teams. Same goes to matchmaking.

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JustAnotherName, reply 32


Obviously you still don't get it. 95% or more players left the multiplayer scene because it takes too long to start a game. But if matchmaking was there in the first place, this problem will be minimal.

Check starcraft 2 system to get a clue how a good ranking works. It is not too accurate for team vs team but then its still a decent one. Way better than sitting in the lobby for hours waiting for a game to start. Mind you, captain pick are often very imbalance as well but why do players still go ahead with it? Because thats about the best thing we can do to balance teams. Same goes to matchmaking.

 

OK you won i had to read about that. Now I know some things about that, 7 leagues, 5 placement matches or something. But still I don't really understand how could it get more players to play multiplayer (ok i have to admit i am not like average people and i cant really think with their heads, what could make them leave mindless AI killing for a month and then leaving this game forever, instead join the small multi community), and for max 200-300 players at weekends to introduce this new system to an old game like this.. instead of releasing the sequel game.. I don't know. First there should be a poll or something whether there would be enough players interested in this new feature or not, because this game does not have the player base large like SC2 (correct me if I'm wrong), so would it be efficient enough? Based on the current state of ICO (= far from great) i doubt they will add something like matchmaking, and I wouldnt be surprised if there wont even be another patch for this game.

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

I'm going to offer a slightly different perspective on this and make a crazy hypothesis: A single player campaign would both increase the MP player base and increase the general skill level of new MP players.

Allow me to explain.  A single player campaign that builds from smaller to larger solar system/planetary set ups would ease new buyers of the game into the various aspects of play.  Limiting the available research to that which allows a new buyer to explore the different aspects of the game and actually become proficient at them in order to move onto the next mission, while creating an affinity for the Sins universe and narrative, would increase player loyalty and encourage people to try the "ultimate" challenge of MP.  I think the greatest failing of this game is a new player who may or may not be familiar with 4x's is given a couple very cursory "tutorials" and then left to their own devices.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Homeworld: Cataclysm (by far the best SP campaign I've ever had the pleasure of playing through). 

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Turchany, reply 33



Quoting JustAnotherName,
reply 32


Obviously you still don't get it. 95% or more players left the multiplayer scene because it takes too long to start a game. But if matchmaking was there in the first place, this problem will be minimal.

Check starcraft 2 system to get a clue how a good ranking works. It is not too accurate for team vs team but then its still a decent one. Way better than sitting in the lobby for hours waiting for a game to start. Mind you, captain pick are often very imbalance as well but why do players still go ahead with it? Because thats about the best thing we can do to balance teams. Same goes to matchmaking.


 

OK you won i had to read about that. Now I know some things about that, 7 leagues, 5 placement matches or something. But still I don't really understand how could it get more players to play multiplayer (ok i have to admit i am not like average people and i cant really think with their heads, what could make them leave mindless AI killing for a month and then leaving this game forever, instead join the small multi community), and for max 200-300 players at weekends to introduce this new system to an old game like this.. instead of releasing the sequel game.. I don't know. First there should be a poll or something whether there would be enough players interested in this new feature or not, because this game does not have the player base large like SC2 (correct me if I'm wrong), so would it be efficient enough? Based on the current state of ICO (= far from great) i doubt they will add something like matchmaking, and I wouldnt be surprised if there wont even be another patch for this game.

 

We had almost 1000 online during xmas sale. But what happened to those? Some got bashed by pros and quit multiplayer scene , some got bored of waiting for a game to start which most of time can take more than half an hour.

With proper matchmaking, noob bashing by pros will only happened when there are smurfs...this is something that can't be avoid in all games. And players will most likely only have to wait for less than 5mins to start a game.

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JustAnotherName, reply 35


We had almost 1000 online during xmas sale. But what happened to those? Some got bashed by pros and quit multiplayer scene , some got bored of waiting for a game to start which most of time can take more than half an hour.

With proper matchmaking, noob bashing by pros will only happened when there are smurfs...this is something that can't be avoid in all games. And players will most likely only have to wait for less than 5mins to start a game.

 

I know, I saw the steam sale people everywhere, but most seemed not really interested in this game, only playing with friends and password only games, there were only a small amount who wanted to play with us, but they continued to play online I think and still play games on ICO. This game is old, and there are so many new fancy games around it is hard to catch players for a longer time than 1-2 months. And the complexity of this game not really suits occasional players, who play 1-2 games a week maybe and get dissatisfied from not knowing how to play this game well after 1 or 2 matches.