Giving new players a chance/ pvp boot camp suggestion

from Sins Forums

     3-4 years ago, Sins had a population of 50-100 people a day. On top of that we also had problems with hosting games, where only a select few of people could host a game. Among these people we had 2 clans that were somewhat alive [DT] and [_] in which some of the core players of the clan still play to this day. We held our matches labeled skilled in which case any player with less than 20 games was most of the time booted from the game. We kept the community closed to most new outside players. Doing this causes all the new players in the game to forget the idea of playing competitively online. For a long time the sins multiplayer stayed to 50-100 people a day. By insisting that you must be skilled to play with the group, we killed sins skilled online community. And now, a few years later the sins community has greatly increased in size to over 700 people a day! Yet, we still continue to do the same things. We host games in which case we boot any player that will decrease the chances of us winning. How do we expect these new players to stay in the online community and to get better when we boot them out of the game for someone better. When those people have been waiting since the beginning of the match to play. Is this really fair? and is this really the best thing for the sins online community? 

     I believe that the game has a greater potential online, we just need to give it a chance. I would like to suggest a pvp boot camp in which new players can get a better understanding of the online game play. Playing single player is much different than the online experience. I want to ask if some players would help me organize a boot camp in which we teach new players the ins and outs of the game. We would need players that are skilled in a certain race. We need players who know their races from the inside out to help teach the players of the race. If this becomes successful, the skilled online community will grow to the point in which we gain a better chance to have strong living clans. This can't be done by only one person. Therefore, I ask if people would join me in doing this. This maybe the only chance to show sins online potential.

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

3-4 years ago, Sins had a population of 50-100 people a day. On top of that we also had problems with hosting games, where only a select few of people could host a game. Among these people we had 2 clans that were somewhat alive [DT] and [_] in which some of the core players of the clan still play to this day. We held our matches labeled skilled in which case any player with less than 20 games was most of the time booted from the game. We kept the community closed to most new outside players. Doing this causes all the new players in the game to forget the idea of playing competitively online. For a long time the sins multiplayer stayed to 50-100 people a day. By insisting that you must be skilled to play with the group, we killed sins skilled online community. And now, a few years later the sins community has greatly increased in size to over 700 people a day! Yet, we still continue to do the same things. We host games in which case we boot any player that will decrease the chances of us winning. How do we expect these new players to stay in the online community and to get better when we boot them out of the game for someone better. When those people have been waiting since the beginning of the match to play. Is this really fair? and is this really the best thing for the sins online community?

 

You know people.... he has a point.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I tried to make a mentor thread at one point and had a bunch of players like Red Ruby and Seleucia volunteer to help but it didn't amount to much. The few legit interested players that I added on steam turned out to be not that interested after all and didn't play much and soon dropped out of sight. I think part of the problem is that new players on ICO don't organize their own games very much - there is no reason there can't be a 5v5 "new" or "average" version of the skilled games so people can at least get some experience. The pool of skilled players has increased a lot recently anyway due to players from other RTS games joining and picking up Sins play pretty quickly - and they have learned by watching a lot of the replays posted here.

Having said all that, your idea is still a good one - and it may work more successfully than the mentor thread because the population has exploded more since that time. I really only play a few games a week now so I'm not in my best form but I'm willing to help out when I can. 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Personally I think something like this is a great idea.  I'm one of the newer players from another RTS that has put a lot of hours into watching replays and reading as much as I can from the forums... and certainly there is some expectation that new players will try to help themselves as well.

However, I wouldn't be half as good as I've gotten (still not that great ;) if it weren't for people like StarPlayer, RedRuby, and many other community members that have exchanged PMs with me and generally accepted me into games.  Just having someone else to bounce ideas off of and have a conversation with about what you're thinking and why is hugely beneficial.  Trying to "bring yourself up to speed" alone with replays and forum content just won't cut it.  

Whether it's something like a formal mentor thread or just a general willingness within the top tier crowd to go out of their way a little bit to help improve people that are trying... well if just 1 out of 10 of those people stuck around and became a quality member it would be worth the effort.

Thanks again to all those making the effort with me right now.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

The concept of a SINS Academy has crossed my mind many times over the years.  More than cliche is the idea that the life blood of any game is new blood, but acceptance into the MP community is a grind. 

We all know this, and we all know why: we went through it.

Central to any effort at improving the player base is willingness on the part of the new player to learn, and by learn I mean conform.  The MP community has made strides in recent months to embrace those willing, and many games now will attempt to "balance" a game with one noob on each team, or similar concessions.  Today's New Player has guides, how-to threads, and replay posts that foster a much more inclusive agenda on the part of the community. 

However, the principal reason so many veteran players remain resistant goes back to how challenging it is, and has been in the past, to field a group from our "inbred" ranks.  There simply hasn't been a strong consensus or even prevailing sentiment until, like I say, "in recent months".

There is also the fact that any training culture we strive to embrace is dependent on the "recruits" themselves demonstrating their desire individually to acquiesce to our accepted standards.  One of which is the hosting of games with the sort of titles that indicate they are "Skilled Only" and yet many new players will populate these lobby's with no clue as to whats going on, and often reinforcing the disdain veteran players have for disrespectful, brash, or uniformed players.  This motivated my Sticky on Societal Standards in hopes of providing a "barometer" of the prevailing conditions in the MP arena. 

I have advocated hosting "Training Games", however, no training course, guidelines, or instructional videos will bridge the gap until the community as a whole supports the effort across the board, and that requires structuring an acceptable regimen.  I believe there exists a need, but to develop an "Academy", there have to be the aforementioned recruits, and recruits generally have to apply, and/or have a sponsor.  

I would propose that veterans that are willing, declare so, and take on the role of sponsoring/vouching for players that have demonstrated to them an affinity for the task of learning.  We could have the devs add new category in the forums called "SINS Academy'  where new players could "apply" by stating a brief history of their gaming experience, what they like about SINS, their motives for learning, etc., and a statement requesting sponsorship.  Companion threads would chart acceptance announcements into the Academy, and track progressive achievements of some base line metrics we could lay out. 

Some things like gaining endorsement of sponsors checklist for:

  • Victory over 2 hard AI in SP mode in order to advance in sponsorship.
  • Approval of early build order for Colonizer capital ship.
  • Scouting protocols.
  • Recognizing Military/Civilian lab priorities.
  • Accomplish solo colonization with colonizer and platform turret only.

Of course, to many much would be seen as rudimentary, but keep in mind; there are so many advanced tactics and mechanics that seem simple relative to a veteran player that a noob might consider somewhat complex.

In any event, a simple but structured regimen of a sponsorship type "program" could really pave the way to establishing vetted recruits and offer them a pathway into more skilled games.

 

 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I just return to the game and would love to see this. I have been on the forum trying to learn the game again. Would love to see some sort of videos with commentary from skilled players on the build and research order for different races and roles with explanations.

I come from the Civ 5 community and I learn alot for their Lets Play video. The players goes into a match and explain the reason behind his build order and strategy and tactics for the game as it develops.

Just a newbie learning. :blush:

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Kudos out to Nightraid3r - He has taken the ball and run with it:

Sins "Academy" Opening Now

Sins - Play and Learn with the Pros

He is someone of exceptional skill level, and if given the chance, anyone would be privileged to call him a sponsor.  Would like to see some standards discussed about mentoring and sponsorship.

Still would like Devs to please add a category, "SINS Academy"

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I'm happy to see people actually considering this boot camp idea. I will see if i can contact radioactive and if we can get this better organize. If anyone wishes to ask me anything about the game about tips of tricks feel free to add me in steam. Both Ico and steam acc name is Angel182