It was nerfed though not quite halved.

Excellent

Sweet, more content that we can play at 2 fps. <3

I am amazed....

This has finally happened SOASE is taking its first step into E-Sports. Man im so glad that they have started to change their course of action. This is really good news. I stopped playing Rebellion 1-2 months ago because of the imba map spawns and other related problems. I am really happy with the new maps (Competetive maps) and all the NAYSAYERS can ****, yeah. Anyways im really hoping that their next patch includes MULTIPLAYER UI CHANGES.

Thank you Ironclad for at least trying to make one of your greatest games more popular!

Right, cause BagsX isn't skilled....nah...

The AR ban happened...while not to the "degree" of the VR ban, lots of hosts refused to allow AR in their (skilled) games, and the reasoning was mostly because of Wail, NOT the eradica...in many cases these bans were at the request of multiple people in the game lobbies, so it isn't just the distorted opinions of a select few who happen to host a lot.....

That multiple hosts running skilled games banned AR solely because of wail only points to how OP it was considered...

Of course, if you played on ICO even remotely recently you would already know this....

Only more reasoning to make me think you don't play on ICO much...

Now, there's nothing wrong with not frequenting the skilled games on ICO...but since you love to go out of your way to tell people they aren't skilled (often followed by "learn 2 play"), I've concluded you are either:

1)  A troll
2)  An asshat
3)  A trollish asshat

OK played few games and some of them were very competitive.

My opinion:

Patch overall is step into right direction:

• corvettes do counter titans 
• Vasari Rebel does look tamed 
• all races are playable 
• in games i played so far I haven't seen single use of wail yet 

There is only one massive problem:

• as I mentioned corvettes counter titans but in order to be successful you need 100+ of them and because game doesn't support multi threading or any other modern CPU thingy it causes massive lag. 

In fight between me and hiroge He had lvl 5 eradica and I had lvl 1 ragnarov. I had 120 corvettes hidden and I used ragnarov snipe to drain eradicas shields and then warped my 120 corvettes in and needles to say eradica died shortly after. It was laggy but lag was bearable. Then he build his own 100+ corvettes and once mine and his corvettes engaged in fight game turned into massive slide show. On my end frame changed every 1.5 to 2 seconds.

Yeah that is right 1 frame per 2 second interval. So whatever optimization was done for rebellion it.... Last patch negated everything they did. 

I might write some more in separate thread but atm I felt I had to point above mentioned game ruiner out.    

HAHAH Thanks Sel. Who is that guy?  If he doesnt sorta understand/half agree with my post then he's either a forum warrior or said asshat.

Make your self known in skilled 5s games champ. youll soon be shown you how a temple on every AR planet in game means Novas or the Vasari super weapon to jump in on them is the only way to really crack it open (when the game has ended up fleet intensive with vettes and carriers making up most fleets).  At least now if you jump in from afar as vasari the Advent player can't sacrifice all adjacent planets to kill you without killing themselves.

Than again I doubt you'd survive the first 20min of intense rushing and countering and eco setup in these games to see this happen....

For the next week or two I think AR and VR should be allowed just to fully see the impact of these changes. Maybe hosts shouldn't let everyone on a team go AR or VR, but let a few players use them. Then there can be some sort of consensus on whether AR and VR should still be banned. Or perhaps we could go back to the partial ban days like VLs basically were, with only 1 player per team allowed to use them.

Hmm, that is interesting, considering most people ended up with Carrier heavy fleets late game I'm surprised Corvettes are that much worse.

Who?

I am sorry but with you and Sel as company I would fear for your lives in any game with a remotly intelligent human enemy.

I also think you misjudge the amount of damage done to structures by wail. A wail powerful enough to destroy the important structures is more than enough to effortlessly wipe anything below caps. Now I dont know about how you "skilled" people calculate, but I would trade a few logistics for your carrier fleet any day. Especially at this stage of the game.

You still havent answered the question of why somebody should choose the Advent Rebels if they dont have Wail?

The Coronata isnt UP anymore and once on a sufficient tech level AL are pretty equal to AR.... just with a bit of a different focus. That leaves Wail as the defining AR tech and unless you have a good idea of how to balance it without making it either OP or totally worthless you are free, no encouraged to post it here.

Ironically I tend to survive quite long most of the time. Of course I sometimes die too but usually it is either the enemy or my team surrendering that ends the game for me.

Bags and Seleuceia are skilled. I'll leave it up to the pros who can actually judge them to decide how skilled, but you're not accomplishing anything by insulting them.

I only play one or two games a week and I was asked not to use AR last weekend. It was the first time it happened to me so I'd guess that its only recently become quite widespread, but either way before this patch it was definitely getting momentum. Disagree with it if you want, but there are very good and intelligent players who feel that way. And I suspect there will always be some people who think its OP no matter how costly or situational it is, and others who will always say its just fine.

Also this it totally off topic, but could you not reply in quote blocks? While the Cyan you're using now is definitely a lot better than the blue, I tend to only skim quotes. If you want to respond to a specific point just highlight that text and hit quote.

Allright, I believe you.

I however want to point out it was not me who started using rude words instead of telling them in clear certain - agreed not very polite - words why I think their opinion is wrong.

One could play devils advocate and ask if people ban them for being op or if people ban them because somebody is complaining on the forums. Anyway, if you have been asked, that backs their story up.

Agreed about the balancing discussion.... it will never end, I guess that is a general problem with situational powerful abilies.

Never quite understood the quote system of this forum until now. Tried to manually cut the quotes and had terrible results, hence I decided to use colour.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, that tends to happen when you quote one thing from the original post and another from someone's reply. Then there was that one guy who somehow got an illegal period in his name that screwed the entire thing up if you tried to quote him. But for things like this I find it works reliably enough.

At this rate, we should have some competitive tournaments and matchmaking with good numbers on ICO around the time our Mars colonies come online.

Is ARESIV not Eros/Specter? Have I been misunderstanding this whole time?!?!

L-O-L

That is....unfortunate.

Everything is relative...if BagsX is unskilled and needs more time on ICO, then so does Eros...

May I suggest that whoever is responsible adds info about how to update Sins? Cause for me Sins didn't auto-update no matter what I tried. Instead I had to double-click it within Steam to let Steam "convert data to a more efficient bla bla" (sorry, forgot the exact wording). Took me like 10mins to figure that out cause I never ever double click (start) my games through Steam.

Yup 'Who?', I'm intrigued now... so who are you on ICO? If you have played much 5s at all since vanilla then its highly likely Ill know your tag(s), and you should know me.  Always been BagsX and all the regulars can testify to my longevity and in-game play on ICO...  I dont think insulting Sel is going to help you here either.  'Remotely intelligent humans' is the only opposition I play against, period, and while not amongst Aquias, JJs and HTs of the game, I'm not far down the list of player people want on their team.

But besides this you make my point for me. in essence..

" I would trade a few logistics for your carrier fleet any day. Especially at this stage of the game."

This is precisely why Wail was regarded OP on the first place, and why it has in recent months, been ruled out of the majority of skilled 5s (though we have been playing a few of late when there's been gentlemans agreement not to trigger wail if you pick AR, and a few games Slackah and others hosted for "everything goes fun").

The reason to play AR without Wail?  A leveled up Eradica is one of the best fleet clearing titans in the game, but you actually have to take it to a fight unlike Wail. 

Are AL better than AR without Wail?  Maybe but the eradica is much more aggressive and fleet wiping titan, and that can make the real difference in tight games - though making vettes immune to Chaotic burst (I assume this happened?) takes that away from from AR, which is partly my other point in my original comment about vettes....

I am liking and playing AL more and more though because the culture buffs and allegiance change rates make offensive culture viable and fun to play in some situations. The Corona's titan and sb busting with that focused damage ability, and then the planet taking at level 6 is good value too.  But fast fleeting with light frigs and vettes, backed up soon after by and Eradica to cookie cut you opponents frigs, still make AR completely viable and fun without wail.

I thought of another condition to Wail that may help convince me that its can be a balanced ability, if AR had to 'earn' their Wail damage by it it being only effective in opposition gravwells where they had dominant culture had reduced the allegiance to >30% or some such.  Being that the ability is housed by the communion temples, the 'culture' race, should have to do better than just 'click'  'pop'.

There are two comments you made which scream troll or asshat...

Unless your ally has a fleet in range but then you shouldt use Wail in the first place under normal circumstances.

LoLWut?  If wail is allowed in a skilled game, its the first thing an AR player goes for - every time essentially.  It became so prolific it has been banned in skilled 5s most games, regardless of what you say.

If Wail is a unsolvable problem for you, than you are not skilled.

Eh? its not unsolvable.  If you are scouting and see whats going on, then yeah you don't go into gravwells where it can be triggered on you.  The solution to advance on an entrenched AR player then needs to be to contain them as best you can, hope they dont bring a leveled up up eradica to spoil your day before you have the gear to take it out, and then you pretty much have to have you or your team Nova the planets as you advance so the population cant be used to wipe you. 

This scenario causes games to grind to a halt.  It got to a point where many of us consider it plain OP both as a deterrent and a fleetwiping one clicker.  Final Judgment will of course be reserved for the game play in the coming week, so make yourself known and join us... should be interesting.

Late game it is perfectly solvable using superweapons, but Wail can be rushed pretty fast and completely counters early game fleets.  It means that if the other guy gets one decent world, you have to retreat, but the AR can keep pushing, and if they get another world, you have to retreat again because you can't fight.  Wail can be rushed extremely quickly because it has no pre-reqs other than labs and doesn't require much to be built except the culture station you would already have.  It is still really powerful, but I'm glad they added a downside to it.

It will be fun playtesting.  

I predict a continued OP Vasari Rebel starbase use because the debuffs on the mobile starbase are designed to be really weak and their still OP buffs are just slightly nerfed.

We shall see if this prediction holds up.

That being said, I am happy to see a large addition of balanced maps to the game, including more randoms!

Score a win for the multiplayer community!

They are listening!

yay!

So, it seems that should be easy to fix then if say it was given one of the culture techs as a prereq or something, or moved to tier 8. Also, can you wail if you lose the labs? If not, I think that would also go a way to finally bring it into line.

Its not that the debuffs are weak, I just think they underestimate what you have to do to make a starbase truly vulnerable. As it is I think sending unupgraded starbases will probably be suicide, but I agree fully upgrade ones will be able to shrug it off. Though at least it should last long enough now to make the bombers job a bit easier.

Finally, many new maps, cool

The changes in this version 1.1 are great, bringing more balance to the Galaxy I will see how they will effect gameplay, but I guess they will make it much better.

Maybe I will go a bit off-topic I apologise for it, but I could not find a real answer for it anywhere, maybe I was not trying hard enough?

I have one more wish and this game would be perfect for me:

Please, add more planet types. Variability is not the strength of bigger maps, seeing everywhere the original planet types is getting boring for me. This new Moon type or Dwarf planet, great, at last something new (but it is no more than an asteroid with 2.5X population), maybe the developers should continue to add some more planets. I'm not saying it would be great to add hundreds of new planet types that are likely not to exist in this Universe, but maybe a water planet? Or anything science thinks to exist somewhere?

Yarlen I would like to ask you, whether should I expect anything about this field in the near future? Mainly this is the reason that makes me wonder about what mods are there for this game. I guess it won't be that hard to put maybe 2 new planet types in it? I know this is not the most important part of this game, but it could add some more variety to the random maps I like to play the most. I would be the most satisfied customer of Sins Rebellion I guess, if there were more planet types I know there are many requests, but still not a big change was made in this field and I don't really know why?

I think if they were going to do that it would have been added in the expansion, where they could be properly advertised. That's probably too big of a feature to add in a patch.

Another thing is that Sins has always had many good planet mods, so that took off a lot of the pressure for the devs to add them themselves. Pure planet mods include the likes of Sins Plus, Novus Universum, and Infinite Space. Also most major gameplay mods have such mods built in or they added their own, so if planets are a big deal for you, you really should start looking into them.

To be honest I didn't want to make a new thread for this, but that Unyielding Will (I think that's what its called) glitch is back.

Ugh, gimme a second, its not wanting to post the screenshot.

EDIT: There we go, wrong URL, lol

I don't think it went away really. I noticed it again a few times when I reloaded a save game.

Sorry to say People, but I lost my E-Mail that got sent to me for the link for the update...Could someone please tell me where it is?  Stardock dowsn't seem to update it and neither does steam??

Thanks!