[Suggestion] - Making trained units progress rather than become obsolete

from Elemental Forums

Personally, I'd rather be able to keep a unit the entire game than have it go obsolete after a series of new technologies. The high level units that have been fighting with my Champion from very early on are eventually rotated out in place of fresh recuirts in favor of higher group size and sometimes nothing other than 2 additional movement points. I find myself hesitating to make trainable units until I can give them horses or if I'm nearing another "Group size". I have a couple suggestions/enhancements that would allow players to reinvest in thier units to keep them current. (in my percieved order of importance)

1) ability to upgrade a unit to have a mount. I think there are merits to either doing this as a button that applies to all units or as part of the unit design that it would be able to "use best available" somehow. This would be most important to imho because it when my champion has 4 movement, unmounted units are a big hinderence, and designing early game units that can upgrade thier armor isn't practical because they will run into encumberence problems.

2) Ability to upgrade group size (perhaps at an experience cost proportional to the increase in group size).

3) Accessories being "upgradeable" - This one is probably the most difficult and least significant, but I start with my mages who have the accesory for +1 fire damage. Then I discover the accessory for +3 fire damage. Just like a clear improvement in armor, there is no reason to chose the +1 over the +3, although you might go for both. Just being able to somehow give that nice new accessory you invested reasearch into on your existing mages would be nice.

 

My demanding enhancements aside...I'd just like to add that I'm very happy with this game. Even moreso, I'm excited by Stardocks approach to customer satisfaction. I add these requests (and make my first post ever) because I'm encouraged by how responsive they are to testing. Regardless, by offering this game free to those who bought the first, and showing such immense effort to make ammends, Stardock has earned my loyalty. I am very much considering buying a 2nd copy of this game to show my support!

32,791 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

There are currently some bugs that cause even armor that was set to not upgrade to upgrade when you upgrade your armor.  When that is fixed, maybe they can add some or all of the above suggestions?

Congrats on your very helpful first post! k1  I agree, I have been through the downs and ups of Elemental and I'm very pleased with how FE has turned out.  But I am still writing posts and encouraging others to talk about various ideas because now is the time that the devs can seriously add points on top of excellent.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Troops should be able to spend experience points for upgrades in a manually configurable process.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

The only solution we might expect would be some additional upgrade buttons like upgrade weaponry. An upgrade mount and upgrade size would go a long ways towards this goal with very little new code.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Upgrade size should reduce the level of the unit. To make it fair, upgrading an unit of size S by N additional members should incur:

- the cost (in resources) of the equipment N soldiers carry

- the cost (in gold as if rushing) of the production N soldiers require

- the cost (in experience) to bring the unit to the level corresponding to the unit's existing experience times S divided by (S+N)

Upgrading mounts should cost nothing but the mounts.

And I do not think that you should be able to upgrade abilities, at all.  After all, why would you ever build new units otherwise.

BUT, please, AT LEAST fix it so that when you upgrade armor, only what is flagged for upgrades is affected. Right now, I don't upgrade the armor on my favorite designs because of this. The game insists of switching my monk's robes to chain mail, reducing dodging and initiative in the process.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Nice conditions Tudjy. I too am afraid of upgrading armor and weapons in several situations. Only upgrading the designated items would be a nice fix. 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tuidjy, reply 5
After all, why would you ever build new units otherwise.

 

Lol.  For a larger army.

For replacements.

Because troops are only able to train (upgrade) when close to home.  However upgrading, just like shopping, should actually only be available when in a city.

 

I think anything should be upgradable via a in-depth system, as long as the appropriate resources are available: of which the unit's xp is the most important, being spent in addition to whatever other materials are necessary for the desired upgrade.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cardinaldirection, reply 7
I think anything should be upgradable via a in-depth system

I disagree.  Speaking just for myself here...

I tend not to produce units that do not have a clear upgrade path, i.e. I give my line infantry strength and muscle even before weight is an issue, because I expect them to be around for leather and chain.  When I build dodgers, I am careful about leaving enough encumbrance to upgrade to the first shield.

When I switch winged spears for lightning pikes, I feel that this is the same unit.  I give them names like "1st Elusive Spearmen" and "7th Warg Archers", and I can track their progress across the game.

If I could upgrade a quick, lithe and balanced warg archer into a strong, muscled and defensive lancer, it would be completely nonsensical, and I would not feel as if I have improved my veterans. I will feel as if I have spent an amount of "experience resource" in order to change my army composition.

So yes, I would love an interface where you can change equipment of the same type any way you want, but I would not particularly care to have the ability to change traits or weapon types. I.e. short sword and tower shield to long sword and buckler would be OK (Although in real life it really isn't)

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

How about having units of a given type be able to upgrade anything within their troop type?  Guys who fight with clubs should be able to learn to fight with polearms/longswords/staves/maces, etc, but not be able to upgrade to using ranged weapons or artillery or mounted warfare, etc...  So they could upgrade anything within their own troop type, but not cross over to another?