boredpeon boredpeon

Monster Distribution overhaul

Monster Distribution overhaul


From my experience and what I read on the forums the monster distribution system needs an overhaul badly. Point one and two being the major issue. point three is more of something to do besides kill AI late game for xp, fighting the same army types repeatedly for xp gets boring.

1. Monsters being exteremely high level at start of game preventing or destroying expansion.

2. AI unaffected by monsters aggression and wandering.

3. Lack of monsters late game.

Monster population distribution should be based on the turn/season of the game. This would prevent the umberdroth swarms and dragons and such from being anywhere in the start. It gets really old being unable to expand because you are bordered on two sides by AI and the other two sides have monsters you will never defeat. I say never because by the time your one city is able to build anything capable of killing it you will be so far down the power scale the AI will tromp you first or take all your godl and make you unable to afford the units.

Start of the game should be broken down into easy, normal, tough, hard (being extremely rare.) Like a breakdown of 30% easy (mites, single imps, etc), 50% normal (spiders, imp armies, etc), 15% tough (cave bears) , 5% hard  (three ogre group.)  Those initial lairs produce nothing but those units until later in the game.

Later in the game like turn 100 (depending on the speed) you start populating newer higher level monsters into unpopulated/uncontrolled areas. Or have those monsters in the special zones start wandeirng out through the world. Have exisiting lairs create more monsters. Maybe even a few rare events of monsters appearing in controlled territory.

Bring back the random type event of players releasing more monsters into the world from EWOM. Late in game there is usually nothing left except to kill AI players and that kinda makes it hard to get an xp for units created late in the game. Which also bring another point of the huge unguarded areas of empires because you choke the AI players from entering your continental area, so your cities are empty of units.

Have any tiles not covered by a city influence or warden influence be eiligible as uncontrolled when it comes to new monster generation. This would put more purpose into making warden outpost or destroying them. This would be a semi-decent solution to outpost spam because players spamming outposts are most likely not taking time to upgrade.

The wandering monsters are kind of out of hand. Far too many times I can see a tough monsters and ignore it. Then ten to fifteen turns later it starts wandering off from its lair. First off the monster should never leave its lair unguarded. It should wait until a second unit is created by its lair then wander off. Too many times it becomes too easy to aquire high end equipment because you play dance around the tiles with the tough spawns until you get into the lair.

Then on the other hand you have the annoying wanderers that wander five to six tiles just to destroy resources. Warden outposts was supposed to be a solution for that, but they do not work.

The monsters ignoring the AI is something everyone is sick of seeing. Monsters do not attack the AI players. Then depending on what the army stack is the AI will either attack the monsters or ignore it, sometimes even stack in same tile with it. AI and monsters should NEVER stack in the same tile. Then monsters should have an aggression any players weak units, resources, and outposts. Attacking cities should be a very rare occurence unless it was something like an army of multiple units or a dragon caliber type unit. Having one cave bear wipe out three militia units (becuase of its oveprowered maul) and the city destroyed seems more on the lame and far fetched side.

 

 

96,267 views 31 replies
Reply #26 Top

It's the restarting part that's annoying. I actually like monsters the way they're now. In my resoln game my second city was next to a Dragon. It kept wandering and occasionally attacking and threatening my city, and it was very annoying but it did indeed harass my closest AI neighbor too. Also interesting, it wants to attack the city when it's close to it but stop and turn around if I've enough troops in there; then afterwards it wanders to the other side and my army can go back to w/e they're doing:)

Btw, I've never seen Ashwake dragons wander...only other dragons like the black colored one. River slags wander huge areas...jesus lol...

Anyways monster positioning need to be tweaked no doubt but it's AI is good and I don't want the game to be a walk in the park mind you :D Right now it's quite similar to FFH, just that uber strong monsters starts too close.

 

 

 

Reply #27 Top

I've seen dragons eat the AI units and leave mine be plenty of times. If the AI is able to seize more territory than you, it could be an issue of You aren't devoting your resources towards expansion quite like they are. Regardless, it appears to me that the monster AI is cruel but fair.


 

Reply #28 Top

The real problem here is not how tough monsters are but how random the actions of the monsters in game appear to be to players. I find the world to have already been nerfed into oblivion now. Except dragons I usually just kill every monster and lair in the game with a single champion. The militias in towns can easily deal with 99% percent of wandering monsters. So you never have to garrison towns against monsters .Umberdroths and freed lair guardians being the only exception and garrisoning against them is pointless because they are uber tough.

Currently in FE their are two types of monsters. Those that guard lairs and those that wander around lairs. All lairs have guardians that will not leave a lair unless it is placed under influence, then they attack random things. After a while a tougher guardian will replace the existing one and that monster will become a wanderer. Some lairs also continuously spawn wanderers. Wanderers will wander around a lair and attack things.

This system is horrible for several reasons. Firstly it makes even the toughest monsters in the game a threat to every city on the map because you never know when someone is going to build a outpost beside a dragon and it will cross the world to eat you Capital. That is just inherently broken and unstoppable. It is far too punishing and random to be fun. Secondly it even fails to properly limit expansion because when you aggro them they will simply ignore you and attack someone else 2/3 of the time. Is that Dragon right beside a mine? No problem just build a outpost and will wander off into the distance. 90% of lairs can be killed by a single low level champion anyway so everyone expands like mad.

A more coherent system is badly needed. One that is far less random and properly limits expansion. I think that lair guardians should prioritize attacking the source of the ZoC that woke them up and then return to their lair instead of roaming around. This would make them predictable so you could make monsters much tougher, especially initially. They would actually serve as limits on expansion because they would kill only the cities around them and not wander off randomly. Players would have to wait for a certain tech or army size before claiming certain areas. True you could just avoid placing them under direct ZoC but then you would still have to deal with the wanderers that spawn from the lairs and grow stronger over time. This would lead to actual hard to deal with monster infestations instead of a few random unstoppable death machines and then everything else being free candy.

Reply #29 Top

Quoting DsRaider, reply 28
The real problem here is not how tough monsters are but how random the actions of the monsters in game appear to be to players. I find the world to have already been nerfed into oblivion now. Except dragons I usually just kill every monster and lair in the game with a single champion. The militias in towns can easily deal with 99% percent of wandering monsters. So you never have to garrison towns against monsters .Umberdroths and freed lair guardians being the only exception and garrisoning against them is pointless because they are uber tough.

 

yes thats another problem

i quite agree monsters are too weak if you start well with your sovereign, soon he can solo basically everything

stronger sovereigns really dont even risk to die in the process while maybe with irane occasionaly you may die since she is very weak early on


maybe monsters should wander less and band more, so unless you are very fast to kill those wolves wandering around you find a huge group that would be really hard to kill

Reply #30 Top

+1 OP

 

I like all the weak, medium and strong monsters around to keep me interested & honest, but those epic/deadly monsters need a setting that makes them stay put unless attacked, or perhaps stay put until a particular technology is reached, building (wonder) is built, or spell is cast. Played 3 different games over the weekend and each one was ruined at some point (one after MANY hours of enjoyable gaming) by some uber-mega-unbeatable monster thing that came out of nowhere and effectively ended the game for my faction.

 

How is that fun?

Reply #31 Top

Quoting harneloot, reply 31
+1 OP

 

I like all the weak, medium and strong monsters around to keep me interested & honest, but those epic/deadly monsters need a setting that makes them stay put unless attacked, or perhaps stay put until a particular technology is reached, building (wonder) is built, or spell is cast. Played 3 different games over the weekend and each one was ruined at some point (one after MANY hours of enjoyable gaming) by some uber-mega-unbeatable monster thing that came out of nowhere and effectively ended the game for my faction.

 

How is that fun?

How many cities did this monster kill? How many cities did you have? What monster was it?