Some observations from someone new to the party

from Elemental Forums

Hey all,

I played Elemental for quite a while, but only recently downloaded the FE beta and started playing it. Some quick, initial observations on my part

 

1) Creature difficulty is high early in the game - unlike Elemental, you are very limited to where you can expand, and I've found that there are some very tough creatures very close to your starting location. I find it extremely difficult to make and defend new settlements ... having two is a challenge, three and more is nearly impossible. I honestly can't recall how Elemental did it, but it was done well I think. I believe all of the creatures near your starting location - and even possible expansion locations - we all fairly low level. They came at you, but you could handle it with low tech and low levels. High level creatures should really only either be placed far far away from the starting points, and/or they don't even move until you reach a certain level

2) The Weakness "Cruel" and Talent "Natural Leader" should be mutually exclusive. You're basically getting a free +1 to attack with reduced champion recruitment fee

3) I REALLY wish I was able to view the spellbook from the main menu, before (or during) Sovereign creation. 

4) Arcane Monoliths are a bit much - it almost makes Enchanters + Attunement a requirement for a faction/sovereign. If monolith-like expansions could be built by other means (non magic and resources), that might balance it out a little bit. Or maybe they CAN be, and I just haven't figured it out yet?

5) Tangentially related to 4, when making a new Faction, the Enchanters Strength description isn't fully visible - it says, " ... tomes which allow the reader to learn Air, Earth, Fi..." and that's it. It actually took me a few playthroughs to realize Arcane Monoliths are exclusive to Enchanters. Strengths like Legacy of Serrane and Slave Lord have lengthy descriptions which fit in the box. A minor issue

 

I am enjoying the game so far ... still experimenting with sovereign/faction combinations, and getting whipped by golems

28,246 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

1) Creature difficulty is high early in the game - unlike Elemental, you are very limited to where you can expand, and I've found that there are some very tough creatures very close to your starting location. I find it extremely difficult to make and defend new settlements ... having two is a challenge, three and more is nearly impossible. I honestly can't recall how Elemental did it, but it was done well I think. I believe all of the creatures near your starting location - and even possible expansion locations - we all fairly low level. They came at you, but you could handle it with low tech and low levels. High level creatures should really only either be placed far far away from the starting points, and/or they don't even move until you reach a certain level

In WoM creatures just spawned outside territory randomly, there were no lairs. As time passed and certain techs were researched the monsters got stronger. I much prefer the FE system. The problem isn't that monsters are too tough it's that the rules and ways to deal with them are never really explained.

In FE their are two types of monsters. Those that guard lairs and those that wander around lairs. All Lairs have guardians that will not leave a lair unless it is placed under influence, then they attack random things. After a while a tougher guardian will replace the existing one and that monster will become a wanderer. Some lairs also continuously spawn wanderers. Wanderers will wander a certain distance around a lair and attack things. The problem is that when freed guardians are extremely random and display a bias for attacking humans. They will sometimes wander half the map, ignoring nearby targets and the actual player who freed them, to attack a random city. They should prioritize attacking the city or outpost that put them under influence in the first place, and then maybe go back to their lair. Also it doesn't show or even say how far wanderers actually wander. It is very possible to build a city and then have an Umberdroth move 10 tiles from out of the FoW to destroy it early game.

While some wanderers are a little tough early game like Assassin demons but even more so Umberdroths, I find that monsters are too easy to farm early game for the most part. Any half decent sovereign can usually take most lairs near him early game, so could a single unit of troops.

4) Arcane Monoliths are a bit much - it almost makes Enchanters + Attunement a requirement for a faction/sovereign. If monolith-like expansions could be built by other means (non magic and resources), that might balance it out a little bit. Or maybe they CAN be, and I just haven't figured it out yet?

They will get a slight nerf in Beta4 anyway since you will only be able to build or summon outposts within a certain distance of your influence. So the cheese will be mostly removed.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Really really really like nr 3 and 5, since its part of the interface stuff, and I always want a better interface! (good game with a mediocre interface is more boring to me, than a mediocre game with a good interface!)

4: I think it might change ideology abit during the next beta, they change outposts abit etc. So I'd love to wait with giving too many ideas until I see what they have on the whiteboard.

2: I dont think they should be mutually Exclusive, but instead tweaked:... I think ALL penalties should be slightly worse than any of the beneficial talents!. Also hope to see more interesting stuff, but probably not gonna happen :S.

1: This is a really hard idea to think about, how to change, differ, make it slightly easier without making it "easymode". But in general I said before: I really feel we need A Better Random Map Generator!

As I said before, Thanks for posting your opinions, always like to see new players ideas!, Especially with "sensible" suggestions like these put up in a decent manner :D.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Thanks for the explanation regarding monsters Ds - I did eventually discover that the lair creatures start chasing you once they're in your zone (after placing an arcane monolith in an ill-advise spot near an Ophidian lair). 

Kong - re: them being mutually exclusive, I agree that an alternative would be to have the penalty outweigh the benefits. As it is now, you get the +1 to attack and 50% all hero recruiting costs for nothing. 

I still think a non-magic version of the arcane tower (maybe it costs gold/crystals and requires tech) should be available. As it stands, I can't imagine playing a faction that doesn't have Enchanters

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Stornskar, reply 3
I still think a non-magic version of the arcane tower (maybe it costs gold/crystals and requires tech) should be available. As it stands, I can't imagine playing a faction that doesn't have Enchanters

Pioneers can build outposts... ;)
Not to be harsh, but did you play the tutorial (Wanna know how flawed or unflawed the tutorial is, of if its the interface in general that could use a boost)

Thank you DSraider for explaining the monster "Problem"... Would be nice if the interface explained this somewhat! :D

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Yea

Quoting Kongdej, reply 5

Quoting Stornskar, reply 3I still think a non-magic version of the arcane tower (maybe it costs gold/crystals and requires tech) should be available. As it stands, I can't imagine playing a faction that doesn't have Enchanters

Pioneers can build outposts...
Not to be harsh, but did you play the tutorial (Wanna know how flawed or unflawed the tutorial is, of if its the interface in general that could use a boost)

Thank you DSraider for explaining the monster "Problem"... Would be nice if the interface explained this somewhat!

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

 

Right, I was going to edit my post because I just discovered the Pioneer/outpost thing ... I hate tutorials, I mean I usually like to just jump in and play, but maybe I'll do this one, heh. Mea culpa

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Stornskar, reply 6
Right, I was going to edit my post because I just discovered the Pioneer/outpost thing ... I hate tutorials, I mean I usually like to just jump in and play, but maybe I'll do this one, heh. Mea culpa

Not saying you should play the tutorial, thats all up to you, I am on the contrary saying it would really be nice if the pioneer ability was better highlighted without one having to build a pioneer at first. If the game would be better explained through the interface, the tutorial had a less important place in the game.
Besides, if the interface tells you these kinds of things, the game just feels more well designed IMO.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 7
Quoting Stornskar, reply 6Right, I was going to edit my post because I just discovered the Pioneer/outpost thing ... I hate tutorials, I mean I usually like to just jump in and play, but maybe I'll do this one, heh. Mea culpa

Not saying you should play the tutorial, thats all up to you, I am on the contrary saying it would really be nice if the pioneer ability was better highlighted without one having to build a pioneer at first. If the game would be better explained through the interface, the tutorial had a less important place in the game.
Besides, if the interface tells you these kinds of things, the game just feels more well designed IMO.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Remember, though, that this is still a BETA and that the final release will be accompanied by a (hopefully very detailed) MANUAL :)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ins2, reply 8
Remember, though, that this is still a BETA and that the final release will be accompanied by a (hopefully very detailed) MANUAL

... Manual... whats that? isnt that some kind of book they used like ages ago... in the late 90's :D

Id rather the game made sense than Id have to look in a manual, but its still nice to "jog down" all the places you might be able to improve the interface, to explain how the game works in a more easily accessible way. So before they release the game they can go through theyre "UI To look at" list, and figure if they get some idea of improvement.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Just to give an example of what I'm talking about re: monsters - I just started a new game, scouted the area around me and there are two expansion slots near, and vast, dangerous wasteland/forest/baddies everywhere else. The nearest expansion has a Hoarder Spider's Army right on top of it - Strong, 151/21/342 Att/Def/Hp. The instant my town expands its area of influence, it is rubble. The other expansion has an Umberdroth on it - L9 Strong, 27/20/86 Att/Def/Hp. There's also a L9 Obsidian Golem right next to it! Same deal - that town will be wasted at this early stage. All I can really do at this point is restart the game ... no big deal, but this is the kind of mechanics issue that I was referring to.

 

I'm not complaining, I understand it's beta - just giving my take on some of the issues that might need to be worked out 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

also thanks from me for explaining a bit about monster behaviour.

I like that the monsters are so tough, the whole premmice of the game as sold to me in the trailer was that the world sould be just as deadly as your rivals. Theat said when you have some form of giant lizzerd wondering around trashing your leval 2 citys and you have no hope of stoping it it ceases to be fun purely because the game seems out of your hands. I don't think monsters should be less powerful I think that the humans(etc.) should be cleverer with options to send lures away from there citys, make sacrifices to appeze beasts hunger, set traps etc.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I may be waxing nostalgic, but I personally would love to see this type of game be accompanied by a large, fully detailed and documented manual (either on pdf or on a wiki if you want to be more "modern") which explains all the mechanics, gives tons of statistics and information (e.g. all monster stats, all hero stats, all item stats, all town improvements, all techs, all hero upgrade bonuses etc.).

Of course this does not exclude the usefulness of a good UI with tooltips and/or an in-game encyclopedia, but I for one like to have something to read at work to help me plan my in-game strategies for when I come back home :)

 

Best, bendiwolf