Does Sins Feel Dead?

Go play 4X games. This is an RTS. 4X games have exactly what you are looking for. I recommend Endless Space and Shogun II.

Galactic Civilizations II had that feature too I believe. At least you could customize what goes on on planets.

Yea, there is no way that would be a decent addition to sins, unless a mod for yourself. We want nice smooth gameplay not the deep 4x stuff.. i mean we still do a bit of 4x'in but not to the extent of what you're suggesting. ANd you know.. i bought Endless space.. i loaded it, played the tutorial, deleted it.

I have Shogun 2, and I would like more features from that game brought into the next Sins sequel. Planet bonuses that give ships better stats, not artifacts but improved armor alloys and experienced gunnery crews and all that. Planet slots to build things on the planets after you capture them, so you dont just capture, forget and move on. I dont think it would take away from the Sins experience, but let you micromanage stuff better.

And this IS a 4x game, idiot.

Your both wrong!... I mean your both right!

Hybrid 4xRts

Wow now you've hurt my feelings with that harsh language dude.

Most 4x games are turn based - so I was referring to those. They incorporate tons of things like random events, unique discoverable bonuses, etc. that some of the people in this thread are asking for. Yes, Sins has some minor elements of these 4X games, but basically, at its core, its an RTS with a little 4x tacked on. None of these 4x turn based features would work in terms of MP balance, which is all I care about personally at the moment. Random events, good or bad, while they add flavour to the world in TB 4X, would be hilariously bad for MP balance. Imagine playing chess, and then it's like - oh so sorry, random event - your queen is ill and cannot move for the next 10 turns...

Sins does have artifacts though which sort of count as random events, although in competitive games you generally could not afford to search for them unless you were already easily winning. I guess it's the same old dichotomy of SP people would love more 4x flavour, MP people would hate it and just want what is good for MP balance. Looking at Sins as a 4x in comparison to other 4x is totally wrong imo though - it's far too shallow to be compared to those others so that's why I wouldn't consider it one. If you had to put it in the camp of Endless Space, Gal Civ, SotS, MoO, etc. or of Supreme Commander, C&C, Age of Empires, Starcraft, etc. which one makes more sense? It's an RTS, get over it.

take the game as it is.  if you want different, get a different game for it.

What am I getting over? I just made a suggestion and you told me I shouldnt play Sins. 

I suppose he's right.. when you start playing with the kinda of crap you just go away from playing a game that can be "semi-competitive" and then going into the realms of 4xturnbased or roleplaying. 

Good god if those changes happened i actually would stop playing. It would be retarded to again be subject to more random occurrences. Or at the mercy of a generator that gave some of your planets bonuses. 

Arguably artifacts do this anyway but since there are so few it's hard to notice so much. Frankly they aren't normally discovered late game and you could argue that if someone is spending time researching, they are already in a good position, Or a complete retard.

And yes he has a point, if you compare it to other games it fits more happily with C&C Supcom/SC which are the general benchmark for RTS gaming. 

As he's said, go play Endless Space.

Wow. A member of the forums makes a suggestion of what he feels would make the game more interesting and you assholes tell him to go play a different game...

You guys who play online rush through the game just to win, avoiding all the small nuances that make this game great.

Thank God, I play single player only as the multiplayer crowd seems to be a bit more rude and immature ...

Khezef, I agree random events would make this game world more alive, maybe for Sins 2 some of the artifacts could be random world events instead of just discoveries.

You still don't really get it. We're saying no because it's a stupid idea in Sins. With a random aspect already affecting gameplay so much.. you'd think you would want to stay away from that.

What gets me is how many ultra casual players the game has. Simcity sounds like the game for you, in my opinion. 

Well no actually.. you guys would enjoy Anno 2070.. i have it, it's pretty decent and has all the stuff you're looking for.

I'm going to have to say, if that's the game style you want then go an play one of the slower paced 4x games.  Personally I cant stand having to sit there and baby sit a planet on each and every upgrade.  its so tedious and time wasting and frankly bores the hell out of me.  all I want to do is capture it lay down the defense I want and a few other building and move on to the next planet.  all that micromanaging crap is for the birds.  Ive tried every space rts sim out there and I always find myself right back here looking for more Sins.

Sorry, but Sins is perfectly designed and it works great.

It's not about being rude. As far as I could tell, people were genuinely suggesting the OP would have more fun playing a different game.

The harsh truth is, Sins is an RTS. It was advertized as a 4x hybrid... but it's not. It's really just an RTS with some mechanics borrowed from the 4x genre. That's why it feels dead and 'uninvolved', because the point isn't empire building - the point is rushing through the game to win against other people trying to do the same. It's a competitive RTS game, no matter what the devs originally intended it to be. I'm curious in fact as to what you're referring to when you say "all the small nuances", because I've honestly yet to notice any. You just said yourself the game lacks random events which are preventing it from feeling 'alive'.

The thrill in this game for me comes from the fast paced competitive play, not the empire building. When I want to immerse myself in some good 4x space-opera single player, I play Sots or GalCiv, and I hear good things about Endless Space too. That's what people were suggesting. You want immersion and empire building, play another game because those games provide more in that department. Sins has always been lacking there, ever since Vanilla, in comparison to other, real 4x games. Maybe the devs will make Sins 2 more 4x-ish, but I highly doubt Rebellion itself will face any major conceptual changes to what we have now.

Regardless of the fact, what kind of game Sins is, i sincerely hope, that for Sins 2 there will be wider, more richer selection of neutral factions beyond Planetary Militia and Pirates. Something like minor races in Star Trek BOtF or those subfactions in Emperor: Battle for Dune (Space Guild, IX, Sardaukar, Fremen...) - simply additonal NPC factions, which you can fight or ally and gain some specific and unique benefits from that. Would make the game feel more "lively" and rich, and yes, i think its definitely doable for RTS game like Sins, it just a further development of Pirates/Militia idea.

I wasn't being an asshole, a bit blunt maybe. The guy said Sins feels dead and needs XYZ. I told him Sins doesn't have, won't have, and imo shouldn't have XYZ because it's working as intended already - here are some games that have what you're looking for - not gtfo out Sins or anything. It's like, if you're playing ping pong and a guy says, you know, this game is a bit flat - it needs like, larger paddles, and a bigger ball, and a larger court, and is played outside where random weather events can happen...and you say, well then it wouldn't be ping pong anymore - but I know a game that exists already just like you're looking for...

Yeah, more neutral factions for Sins 2. And to have them have at least one unique ship would be awesome. What would be even more awesome is if when you captured their planet you could build that ship at the planet or at a very hard to kill shipyard in orbit.

I love single player too.

Keep it all in single player then.. :/ how can you play competitively if your neutral factions are stronger or uncontrolled or random? RANDOM being the biggest word.

I think the thread´s author is right.

Playing in huge maps is somewhat boring to me because there´s nothing more interesting but making lots of ships and conquer more planets.

Could you please elaborate on that?  What nuances do you think are ignored in online multiplayer PvP?

Is it possible that PvP also offers its own set of strategic nuances?

That's a great analogy.  It's what I try to explain to the Sins role players.

I just think that as a game single players play Sins more as a rpg and can take our time .....

Multiplayers seem to just want to win..above all else.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to start setting up trade routes......wait a minute...  

Someone could always try to make a mod for something like this. Go ask Goafan, or someone over in the modding subforum.

The thing is, in a competitive multiplayer game, the fun tends to get taken out of it.

Example: When i'm fighting the AI, i might send a few kol battleships through the star to make a surprise attack against an enemy in concert with a pirate attack.  On the way there i see a long line of trade drones and so like any depressed gothic twenty two year old, i just have to stop and blow them all up with rail guns.

In multiplayer, all the fun little things you can do with the game are sidelined in the face of a triage of simultaneous invasions and counter invasions (mixed in with the occasional frigate spam)

Im not saying that multiplayer is boring, far from it, but sometimes you just want to feel the pleasure of tormenting your enemies.

Multiplayer is not lacking in strategic nuances, but it is lacking in one important thing.  Time to enjoy what you've wrought.  To have an extra tactical advantage in the form of friendly AI's and unique ships would only allow the game to be more fun.  In multiplayer those allies could be placed equidistant from players to keep the balance of power fair.  I belive that having something like this would help make the game even better by breaking up the monotony of countering.

Sorry about the rant

Don't feel bad Ace, most older players still think they see the hot, young woman when they look at SOASE.  If you see SOASE as the aging hag, just remember SOASE puts out and has a lot to offer.  Get into modding the game, but at least get into it.  It's not as glorious looking as newer 4x RTS's, but it does have some depth.  Just don't expect more of it than there is.

I know you are speaking just from your point of view, but personally, for an RTS, especially one without a campaign, the fun starts in MP for me. Playing vs. the AI gets old really quick - too easy and predictable. I want to feel the adrenaline of going up against a human mind that knows how to adapt and outsmart in order to push my own abilities - otherwise, they just remain stagnant and dormant. It's a mental stimulation, brain plasticity, and pleasurable neuro-chemical type of thing.

I understand SP is more about relaxing, taking your time, enjoying the view, getting a sense of immersion, etc. I totally get it and I enjoy this myself....in other games. If you get this from Sins, great, but for me Sins SP is lacking those things and only really shines in MP. I say this completely ignorant of any mods out there though, so if there are mods that would add the depth that really good SP games have, that's cool too.

#1 No i don't think its an aging hag.  I've been playing since 2008.

#2 sorry for saying the fun gets taken out of it, i didn't mean that.  What i meant was that those little things that give SP depth are absent in the face of tactical warfare.  Its not that its less fun, its just different.  While you don't have as much amusement along the way, your sense of accomplishment upon winning is far greater in MP