[0.915] Champion Traits Assessment: The Assassin

This post is a continuation of the Assessment found here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/425698

 

The current Champion setup is a great on in concept. We have five strong archetypes that we get to use to craft our heroes as we see fit; the strong Warrior, the skilled Assassin, the noble Defender, the wise Governor, and the powerful Mage. The issue I see is not with the framing of the system, but the implementation of the skills. Too many of them are in strange places or across specializations, which cause the identities of the archetypes to be watered down, and actually serves to make most of them less appealing in general. I feel it is a problem of cleaning up identities more than anything, and my overall assessment is being done with that in mind.

I begin with my assessment of:

The Fallen Enchantress Assassin.

Assassins are warriors whose hallmark is stealth, skill, precision, and lethality. Conceptually, there should be at least two ways to build an Assassin; Sniper (ranged) and Silent Blade (melee). Let’s take a look at what we get with Assassins in Fallen Enchantress.


Trait MinLevel Trait Bonus Gross Bonus
Path of the Assassin 4 +1 Crit/Level, +50% Crit Damage +1 Crit/Level, +50% Crit Damage
  Dodge 1 5 +5 Dodge +5 Dodge
  Dodge 2 6 +7 Dodge +12 Dodge
  Dodge 3 7 +9 Dodge +21 Dodge
  Marksman 1 5 +10% Pierce Attack +10% Pierce Attack
  Marksman 2 6 +15% Pierce Attack, +5 Accuracy +25% Pierce, +5 Acc
  Marksman 3 7 +20% Pierce Attack, +10 Accuracy +45% Pierce, +15 Acc
  Precision 1 5 +5 Accuracy +5 Accuracy
  Precision 2 6 +10 Accuracy +15 Accuracy
  Precision 3 7 +15 Accuracy +30 Accuracy
  Vital Strike 1 5 +1 Crit Hit, +20% Crit Damage +6 Crit (min), +70% Crit Damage
  Vital Strike 2 6 +2 Crit Hit, +30% Crit Damage +8 Crit (min), +100% Crit Damage
  Vital Strike 3 7 +3 Crit Hit, +40% Crit Damage +11 Crit (Min), +140% Crit Damage
  Impulsive 5 Unit Goes First  
  Deflect Missiles 6 + 20 Dodge v. Missiles Dodge 1 Prereq
  Double Strike 5 Attack twice for -30 Accuracy  
  Sweep 6 Attack all adjacent for 50% damage Double Strike Prereq
  Charge 5 +3 Moves and +3 Initiative on first turn  
  Gambler's Strike 5 50/50 double damage or miss  
  Acrobat 8 +1 Dodge/ Level +29 Dodge (Minimum), Dodge 3 Prereq
  True Strike 5 Never Misses, does 75% Damage  

 

The Good Stuff:

  • Dodge: This attribute is very hard to come by in the game, and makes a very good trait for representing what an Assassin is, as does the type and placement of secondary abilities (Deflect Missiles, and Acrobat) with Dodge for representing both the Sniper and Silent Blade Assassin builds.
  • Double Strike: This makes sense. In case an Assassin isn’t certain that one hit will do it, two are needed. Their advanced access to Accuracy makes this a great pick for melee Assassins, but does it work with ranged attacks?
  • Impulsive: Fantastic ability, and it fits both builds very well.
  • Vital Strike: Again, very characterful for Assassins. I am not entirely certain HOW critical hits are calculated, but it appears as though a level 10 Assassin with a few levels of Vital Strike has a nearly 15% chance to critical and a massive boost to damage when they do. Very good.

Ill Fit Abilities:

  • Marksman: This is  a great ability for Sniper-type Assassins, and would probably be taken every time, but given that it also affects spears, why is this restricted to Assassins?
  • Sweep: Precision. Skill. Assassin. An ability which flails wildly for low damage around a Champion is a poor fit for a Precision Champion. This belongs on the Warrior Path.
  • Charge: Get there fast and first, sure. Not sure that “Charge” is necessarily what I think of when I think of Assassins. This particular skill belongs with Path of the Warrior. See “From the Shadows” below for an example of what would fit wonderfully with Assassins.
  • True Strike: This belongs with any other class. By the time an Assassin has a chance to pick it, they have an 83% chance to hit, with access  to abilities that bump that percentage dramatically for every hit. Couple that with reducing the damage output and I see a trait that no one will be choosing any time soon. This trait belongs either in the General pool or with Defenders, who have no access to Accuracy enhancers.
  • Gambler’s Strike: Not exactly an ill fit, but I’m not really seeing a big benefit. Assassins have easy access to double damage crits (with a crit rating of 8) as early as Level 6 on every hit with any kind of weapon, with a very high chance of hitting normally. Why trade that for a melee-only strike with a 50/50 shot of dealing this type of damage? This trait is good in spirit, but compared to what Assassins are capable of on a per-hit basis, it comes off as a non-starter.

 

Recommendations:

Assassins don’t have any real support for their Sniper variant in terms of active skills. Their passive skills are good and make sense, but they get no love otherwise.

  • Bow-Assassins need some fun abilities. Things like a No-Crit tradeoff for Knockdown ability with a decent timer on it.
  • Melee Assassins need something that better indicates their skill. An ability called something like “From the Shadows” where they teleport and strike sorta like that Air spell would be more fitting for them than Charge.
  • In general, Assassins need some abilities that really illustrate their ability to capitalize on the weaknesses of their enemies.
    • 2x Damage on enemy weaknesses
    • Attack that totally ignores armor
    • Riposte, an ability that has a % chance to block an attack and counter once per turn.

 

Finally, I think starting at level 15 each and every Path needs to start getting access to some pretty over-the-top abilities. All Paths start running out of really interesting things to pick around level 12 leading to the appearance of diminishing rewards. The sky is the limit here, and I’m not going to take the time to really illustrate all of them, but if you can get a champion to Level 15, you deserve some crazy stuff for your effort, and not "I guess I'll make them a Governor now".

20,210 views 11 replies
Reply #1 Top

I find charge very useful for my long range assassins.  But that doesn't mean it fits...especially since what I use if for is to run away from the front lines and fire a volley.

 

Reply #2 Top


I find assassins to be the most useful and enjoyable combat class. I don't really think of them in terms of snipers, as I don't think any heroes are particularly effective at long range. Melee weapons just do heaps more damage, many useful spell buffs are applicable to melee only (like Mantle of Fire), and if using blades you get the counterattacks for more kills. I only use bows on weak heroes I want to stay out of combat. Has anyone actually devised a really powerful bow using hero?

Double-strike, Sweep and Charge are the three abilities I am happiest to see come up as options. I disagree that sweep is inappropriate, I think of the ninja leg sweep, or low strike with a blade to create space or get away.  don't have any problem with its implementation.

True Strike is currently pretty much useless, but it doesn't have to be. I'm sure before too long the devs or modders will have NPCs or creatures with very high dodge.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Droghar, reply 2
Has anyone actually devised a really powerful bow using hero?

Problem with bows are the MASSIVE penalty to initiative, you cannot use bows without the "Archery" trait, in which it still is kind of... Meh, compared to having a decent sword and a shield.

Besides, lategame movement on heroes goes up so high that the bonus from not having to move over to the enemy is equal nothing, since it only takes 1, maximum 2 turns to get to the enemy line... (So small tactical maps)

That brings me to another point, assassins might, should, meaby, be able to dual wield or something, to remove the shielded assassin part... Shields on an assassin seems quite silly...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Reply #4 Top

Melee Assassins need something that better indicates their skill. An ability called something like “From the Shadows” where they teleport and strike sorta like that Air spell would be more fitting for them than Charge.

 Since it has a max of 3 squares, agreed. This is a great mid game way of moving within enemy lines ignoring their units zone of control and taking down the weak targets. Fits a lot better.

 

That brings me to another point, assassins might, should, meaby, be able to dual wield or something, to remove the shielded assassin part... Shields on an assassin seems quite silly...

I second this. 

  

 

I also propose 2 other abilities:

 

Hit and Run - range is half of lefting moves, the hero simply moves, hit and come back to the original position. If you make a good positioning of tanker units, there is almost no risk for your hero. Good pick for low level assassins.

 

Shadowmeld: Passive, high level. The hero ignores enemy units zone of control.

 

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Kongdej, reply 3

Quoting Droghar, reply 2Has anyone actually devised a really powerful bow using hero?

Problem with bows are the MASSIVE penalty to initiative, you cannot use bows without the "Archery" trait, in which it still is kind of... Meh, compared to having a decent sword and a shield.

Besides, lategame movement on heroes goes up so high that the bonus from not having to move over to the enemy is equal nothing, since it only takes 1, maximum 2 turns to get to the enemy line... (So small tactical maps)

That brings me to another point, assassins might, should, meaby, be able to dual wield or something, to remove the shielded assassin part... Shields on an assassin seems quite silly...

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Adding to this, another root reason bows become 'Meh' on champions is the general sameness in survivability regardless of character choices (with the possible exception of defender or dodge assassins who can send defense far beyond ridiculous).

Most defenses come from leveling up, and that's just bad design for an open ended system like FE's.

Why shoot someone with a bow when you can run up much faster, smack them in the face, and not have to worry about getting hurt anyway? 

In my opinion leveling still needs to be overhauled with the following changes

  • 2 HP/Level instead of 4.
  • Warriors gain 1 point of armor per level (need the surivability boost).
  • Defenders gain 2 additional HP per level.
  • Assassins and Warriors get access to high damage abilities that scale per level (this will help with the bell curve of champion progression).
  • Assassins and Warriors get access to medium powered defensive abilities (dodge for assassins, hp/armor boost for warriors) that are optional.
  • No free Magic Resistance or Mastery (these should be mage abilities).
  • Medium level item weight increased. (too easy for every champion to be super armored).
  • Destroy every digital trace of the light weight master armor set.

We should be able and occasionally encouraged to make a champion that is a "glass cannon" of sorts. And glass cannons need to stay away from Melee. Suddenly, the bow becomes a nice alternative...

Reply #6 Top

The assassin should be a magic caster's worse nightmare. Let me tell ya what an assasin really needs...

"Shadowstep" which allows him to teleport anywhere on the map and immediately perform a light stun attack which merely interrupts a spell caster. The attack doesnt need to do much damage. Its the teleport with automatic spell interrupt that i would like to see.

Reply #7 Top

Unfortunately, mages are tanks and tanks are mages, so there isn't much for assassins to counter at the moment.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Sythion, reply 7
Unfortunately, mages are tanks and tanks are mages, so there isn't much for assassins to counter at the moment.

 

I'll be doing a "What a level 10 <Class> Looks Like" addendum to each of these after I get all 5 of them done. I suspect we will see some pretty startling things then.

Reply #9 Top

bows are still useful if you have a front line defense.  If you can get the enemy to be forced to move passed one of your front liners, then their movement towards the backline is immediately slowed to one tile while they are in the front line's range.  in that way bows can kite all day.

Reply #10 Top

Assassins definitely need some kind of stunning attack (x% chance of stunning opponent) and crippling strike (x% chance of significant reduced attack and/or initiative for opponent).

As for Gambler's Strike: Dunno if it's just me. But so far it seems like my chars who use this trait only actually hit 10% of the times they try.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting blusprite, reply 10
bows are still useful if you have a front line defense.  If you can get the enemy to be forced to move passed one of your front liners, then their movement towards the backline is immediately slowed to one tile while they are in the front line's range.  in that way bows can kite all day.

You might want to take a look at the date of the post...

~ K