Red Button/Repulse both need a nerf. [Devs Watch this replay]

they put this for reason, maybe had to do with vasari titan. who know.

Not an excuse, there needs to be other ways to counter Red Button than their are available. Aside from that Red Button doesn't even hurt titans that much.

Actually, I think the game is VERY fun with the danger of losing your entire fleet quickly.

Since all races have their own techniques in doing this, it mixes up the flavor and allows long time players to still enjoy a thrill from the game.

This allows for people to surprise you if you aren't playing prudently.

By playing prudently, i mean scouting ahead.

This lil tidbit saves you INNUMERABLE headaches.  You should always scout, period.

There is no actual way to tell if the opponent has redbuff. You can scout a Temple of Communion on a high pop world, you can scout kosturas, you cannot scout a red button you have to assume. And it comes down to game balance. Losing a whole fleet to one ability is broken, game balance > fun. Then again you can say its fun for you to kill the whole fleet, it sure isnt fun for me to lose a whole 700 supply fleet because someone wants to turtle all game.

actually. you can.

the different upgrades give different EXP values.  by doing some math, and looking at the obvious upgrades, you can tell if there is a hidden button onboard.

Which, is really a big nerf over the 400 exp always starbase. ... which might be a reason why big red button was buffed?

but. it really shouldnt have been.

I find you very boring when you start talking about repulse and sabotage reactor.

Repulse is meant to counter light frigates, cruisers, caps , titans and corvettes. 

Just because things don't go your way and you can't field the right amount of bombers to take out guardians is none of our business.

So one single ability is allowed to counter 95% of the lineup of ships. LRF's have multiple counters, Scouts, flak, corvettes. LFS have multiple counters Heavies, LRFS, strike craft. Flak has multiple counters, Heavies, LF's. Im calling bullshit if you expect me to believe that Sabotage Reactor, an Antisupport ship ability, is not supposed to work exclusively on ONE support ship.

Also if you actually noticed the time that he got out the Guardians, it was AS SOON as I went for his titan foundry. At that moment I realized I could not get his titan so I retreated back to my base. And then the imbalanced bullshitery of Repulsion was seen there. If you are trying to tell me that strike craft is the only counter shame on you because the guardians have a 29 second build time and Percherons have a 46 second build time. And I know you are not stupid Riddle I know for a fact if that same player was a competent player he would of had halcyons with telekinetic push.

So going by what I said above I take that back this strategy of titan + guardians does not just counter 95% of the TEC lineup. Because like you said it counters LF's, Cruisers, Titans, and Corvettes. According to you Strike Craft is the counter, but throw in halcyons there is no counter to this strategy.

Your claim is biased. Lets talk about the advent weaknesses first:

• Low hull points and armor -dependency on abilities
• Expensive carriers meaning you have only a few of them
• Damage spread out along many weapon banks so single front bank firing has a very low dps: Illums and defense vessels , Adjusticator.
• There weaknesses include 95% of all their line up:
• Micro management of Utility cruisers

Tec's ace card: Hoshiko

Vasari: Repair cloud from Cap that repairs even Strike craft:

Advent: Repulse to push away enemies and avoid them firing on their low hull and armor units. 

Theirs a catch:

An advent player has to spend more for an effective repulse combo: e.g disciples with transfer anti-matter, and purchase more expensive guardians while you could spend 800 credits for each carrier with bombers..(advent vs advent is the wrong approach).

Fleet engagement rules: Light frigates and sabotage reactor are effect counters against all Carrier cruisers since they depend on anti-matter. The advent defend their big expensive carriers with repulse..

Many people make the mistake of comparing the wrong units with their abilities vs something which counters them.

Edit

the most confusing part is why your even building light frigates that late in the game.

What if they simply added a visual to starbases with the 2nd red button upgrade?

aka a big red light on the top, something along those lines.

First off anyone that says anything about me being biased knows this isnt true because anyone who plays with me knows I play Advent in 95% of my games, my opinion is the exact opposite of biased, also the Advent are no longer this frail race anymore because LRF rushes no longer work against them. I don't need to be lectured about Advent weaknesses, my whole point is at the press of a button their fleet should not be immune to damage. Hoshikos are not an ace card, and you know that. Hoshikos are basically the cherry on top of the.. ice cream? Because Hoshikos are easily countered(mass Defense Vessels/Illums/steal antimatter.

Repulse is a 10 second immunity that allows a titan to farm off my units. And judging by your edit you did not actually watch the replay. I had 20+ Kodiaks, 20+ flak, 8+ Hoshikos. He took it all out with a titan and a small group of guardians(While warping in a small group of Destras). Granted the tec player was there but he also only had a titan and hoshikos because I destroyed both their armies multiple times. Titans aside there is no way their armies combined were over 2 fleet supply upgrades while I had around 5-6.

This is something I have suggested before, I would be fine with red button if I KNEW the enemy had it, you know the Transcencia has Meteor if it has +200/400 Antimatter.

Mayall i don't understand you! how is it you want to counter repulse with those units when you know you cant!  I have told you many times over-- massed bombers counter titans and bombers can also kill off guardians if you micro them. Why are you forcing the issue..  Don't be bitter that you lost with your fleet composition. You can't counter repulse with oranges and apples!

You want the truth:

"You can't handle the truth"

Because bombers do not counter them... Thats the whole point of Halcyons... And Advent mass Defense Vessels anyways.. Although that did not happen in the replay. Just watch the replay and you will understand. The utility of Repulsion needs a nerf. I'll just break it down.

• I went to attack xenos capital, he had nothing left I wiped out his entire army, this is around where I had somewhere over 20 kodiaks, 20 flak, corvettes, and my capital ship. I watched the replay and even xeno acknowledged in allied chat "If he attacks me I lose". As I said I went to attack his capital as his titan was at around 75% and I wanted to kill his foundry. It was at this point that he started pumping out Guardians, while I was entering his gravity well. He just spams repulse so I cannot get to his foundry. At this point I decided to retreat back to my Dwarf Planet.(Keep in mind most of my economy was drained and our eco had to supply two fronts. Mine and Pirates. You're assuming I had the eco to instantly switch to Bombers)
• Back at my dwarf planet I am met by his titan and a handful of Guardians. He spams repulse so I cannot attack his titan I try to retreat to my capital planet and I cannot because of you guessed it repulse. There WAS no counterplay to repulse in this situation. Finally the TEC titan arrives, my fleet composition would of killed both titans if it was not for repulsion.
• In short he had a fleet supply of 0ish when I was attacking his capital, used repulse to get his titan out. Beat my 500ish fleet supply army with a handleful of units and a titan. Im not in denial, I just know imbalance when I see it regardless of if it is my own race or not.

Also going by your analogy because the Protoss Forcefield ability technically counters the range of Marines. It means the protoss army of 10 Sentries and an archon with 'proper micro' can beat an army of 100 marines. No, a single unit should not be that game changing.

I have nothing against advent wemen-not that your woman but in any case to call a woman who is intellectually-challenged and painfully inexperienced in video games a bimbo isn’t sexist, it’s simply the truth. In fact, to argue that a dumb woman shouldn’t be called bimbo is sexist — it implies that women are too fragile to handle the truth.” 

To quote Quar: Don't argu with an idiot-they will bring you down to their level:

So the halcyons are not present-so why the fuk should i care you lost since you didn't have bombers: Who the hell told you not to have carrier caps or carrier cruisers: Why are you bloody insistent on the oranges and apples beating repulse--thats what is is- approaching a wall stupidly head on when you could have add bombers to fly over it. 

Accept it: You had the wrong fleet composition from the beginning and you lost! 

No. Because one unit should not have one counter, therefore it is imbalanced. Also I am going to disregard your analogy because analogies are a flawed argument(read) "That he resorts to argument by analogy shows his argument is probably devoid of logic, evidence or facts."

Again I will make the point, this is not about if I countered properly. This is about the ridiculousness of the ability, you clearly did not watch the replay. Therefore any point you make is invalid because my argument is based on my replay. Riddleking I am not going to deal with your attempts to discredit my argument because you are the one with the biased view. Advent is one of your favored races and everyone knows this.

Now instead of trying to insult each other i'll give you some more facts.

1. 0:50:00 - I red button Xenos army dropping a 270 supply army to 75.
2. 1:00:00 - Xeno acknowledges if I attack him he loses.
3. 1:00:42 - I attack xenos base. He has NOTHING defending his titan foundry, it is at this point that he pumps out Guardians.
4. 1:02:23 - his titan is finished because he could stall me with guardians repulsion for around TWO minutes.
5. 1:07:00 I am unable to attack his army of just Destras.

My fleet of 27 Gardas/25 Kodiaks/10 Hoshikos/My level 8 sova(517ish fleet supply)

Lost to a fleet of 2 titans(both level 1, one eradica, one Ank(the no damage titan)), some tec corvettes, 16(thats fucking right sixteen) guardians, and a handful of destras that didnt really do anything because they poured in around the middle-end of the fighting. While yes their fleet supply was higher this was mainly due to corvette spam by the TEC which did not hurt any of my fleet because it was heavies, flak, and a capital with hoshikos. So in reality a combined fleet of around 300 fleet supply beat my 500 fleet supply army. 

Don't you dare tell me im wrong and no offense to xeno or the TEC player but if either of them were compitent and had a little bit of flak mixed with a halcyon that strategy he used would have been unstoppable. While you say just "build bombers" no, one unit should not have one counter.

~Fin

Stick to your same strategy and neglect bombers in rebellion-lets see if you get far

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I plan on going to test this out shortly anyway, but don't LRFs with their range boosted by an Akkan outrange repulsion?

(Oh and I haven't watched the replay yet, I'm just proposing a way for TEC to beat Repulsion Guardians that doesn't involve carriers.)

I always said the red button should have been on TEC bases by default and have damage a lot lower. It should be just a small amount of damage as it explodes when you kill it not a game changer. I felt the TEC should have had that slot as a  mining upgrade. Same way as vas get moving SB and advent get free extra strike craft. Basicly they should all get 1 free bonus and final stand bonus should be a free-b for TEC.

It should do 25 true damage for each upgrade the SB has so max of 200 true damage to everything within a big range. This could be a natural way to stop people bomber spamming TECs SB from range because you spam it and you most likely to lose every strike craft which would leave that fleet way open for attack as counter.

Read above.

@haze: They may, but I didn't have an Akkan so :/ I do see the reason behind your solution though. Although their armor type is heavy and using LRF's to just counter Guardians is probably one of the worst cost decisions you can make.

lol mayall  don't take this the wrong way but your just weird considering what this post is all about. Instead of asking for counters to repulsion you instead wanted it to be nerfed. Targeting uplink with Javelis -yeah sure-bombers ofcourse. So whats the problem here?

Once again even when haze tells you javelis can kill guardians you go off talking about javelis being the worst cost decision against guardians.. I give up on you at this point. So what is it you want? A light frigate with a range boost or an unfair increase in the range of sabotage reactor? Your pointless. 

I'm not even interested in your red button-don't care. Scout the SB or die-simple. 

Please be clear: If you don't know how to counter repulsion then ask-don't ask for a nerf.

If you think you can't handle the truth-stop bitching about it an saying oh its wrong, or its the worst cost decision- blah blah.

Its strong evidence of trolling ( i would know-i troll alot)

.......

I layed down the most efficient way-- bombers will kill guardians while javelis will have a hard time dealing with a titan. your replay was a fail..a fail--a fail -an example to all who neglect bombers. 

You are strawmaning an argument. Also you are biased so...
Haze never said that Javelis can kill Guardians, he said that he believes javelis can outrange guardian repulsion with Target Uplink, this may or may not be true, and if it is true we do not know how high in levels Target Uplink needs to be to actually make it effective against the Guardian, and even then it still is not an effective strategy because

A) It requires you to go through a huge planning process

B ) you have to ASSUME the advent player is getting repulsion or even guardians,

C) Javelis do NOT do good damage against Guardians, this is because of their armor type(75% damage).

These are facts Riddleking, you have none and you dare accuse me of trolling. Right now im going to go in game and test and see how effective the range upgrade to a javelis is with target uplink. And again you are only saying bombers, if this unit has only one known effective counter then it is OP. This still has not changed

Edit: It seems that Javelis do outrange repulsion without the target uplink, But again guardians are heavy armor meaning you will need much more javelis to counter the Guardian then is cost efficient. But yes it is a soft, VERY soft counter.

As far as im concerned you haven't watched the replay, your argument means nothing to me, therefore anything you say is invalid, you are the troll Riddle. You're biased Riddle you know that repulsion is broken regardless of if you want to admit it or not.

Another edit: Also because you also refuse to actually do research into what you are talking about bombers do NOT counter guardians while yes in mass they will one shot guardians, you are assuming in mass they will be wittered down and like I said before telekinetic push. If xeno were to have gotten a halcyon your "use bombers" strategy would have been invalid. And you know it. P.s: bomber damage is only good against very heavy. It does 50% damage to heavy just a fun fact.

Javelis' out range repulsion at base level (per game code Javelis's range 9800, Repulsion 7500).

That said, Repulsion has been an issue for a while so I agree with you MayallCommunion.

Ok thanks I was not sure about the range because im still new to getting into the codes of the game so I could not find them:p

U mean i have to kill sb to know if it had ted button? Yes thats perfect way of checkin it out.

But u know what there is easier one, just come close to it and u cannot twist the math

He means that if you mouse over the starbase you can see how much EXP it's worth in the info card.

More upgrades = more exp.

It usually takes less time to build RB than to kill SB.