The x64 thing, and a question aboot it.

Its very rare for companies to release source code, and its usually well after the game is done. With this game especially its a bigger deal because the engine was a big part of their success, and unlike many common engines its not really available for sale/other use. And Stardock says it could easily take a year, and they are most certainly better programers than we are.

Rebellion is not 64 bit, that's what most of the complaints are about.

*cracks knuckles* Let's get started shall we?

1. Sins started life in an age where 64-bit compliant wasn't a big deal- and, indeed, may have actually had a deleterious effect on sales, as the majority of people [and, AFAIK, this is still the case] use 32-bit computers.

2. Sins source code, which actually means the Iron Engine source code, has not been made available except for commercial usage. IE, "buy license, make new game". Not "random internet peeps can play with code". To my knowledge, this is primarily because Sins is still being actively developed. Unlike, say, Freespace 2, which was more-or-less abandoned by the developer due to the title's age.

3. Rebellion is not x64 capable. As has been said many times on this forum, by the Ironclad dev team, 64-bit compatibility is such a major undertaking that it would have to come in a sequel title, rather than an expansion. Keep in mind that while Rebellion introduces a number of new technical features, it is still restrained by the basic limits of the Iron Engine. Rewriting the engine would add so much development time that it would end up being counter-productive.

As an aside, Ironclad appears to be developing [concurrently, I might add] a land-based fantasy Demigod-esque RTS, along with Sins Rebellion.

/returns to cryocrypt

EDIT: and it seems that I have been ninja'd.

I see. 

Well I know everybody's complained about it not being x64, myself included. I just wasn't aware of any other details. 

What I find ironic is that gameplay is so dramatically hindered by the 32bit limit that sometimes I've wondered why I still play it. I guess that its replay value is that good. 

Honestly, they could build an x64 engine, use everything from Sins, repackage the game as Sins 2, change no graphics, and I would buy it.

x64, and multicore.

 and multiplayer support.

sounds good.

someday IronClad might redo the engine, but why redo an old game.  They'd just be better off with 64-bit engine and building on what's in Rebellion and add the tons of feature that just can't be done with current engine.

Presuming the future existence of a Sins II with an x64 version of the Iron Engine, the scale of the game would become absolutely unparalleled.  Yes, the scale of the game at this point is mind-boggling, but with the addition of multicore and extra RAM, you could end up with such a stupendously advanced game that it would be held back only by the hardware of the user.  Right now, we're stuck at 2 GB.  Windows 7 Ultimate is capable of going all the way to 192 GB for instance.  

Imagine the incomparable level of such a game.  You would have maps light years across with thousands of planets, conquerable only by the largest of militaries, with upwards of 20k fleet capacity.  At such a scale, even stars would have to have phase lanes connecting to each other, lest the map be completely indefensible.  Such incomprehensible scale is what could arise from the beast that could be unlocked in a future time where the Iron Engine (or a successor to it) would be made to be 64 bit.  Imagine going to the main menu of Sins II and under the "Play" tab, seeing the following options:

• Campaign: would allow the player to play through the war's primary battles from the perspective of a chosen race
• Skirmish: the same sort of things we've been playing
• The Great War: a single astonishingly gargantuan map of thousands of planets and greatly decreased research speed.  Image experiencing the unlimited wealth of the TEC, the collective synergetic might of the Unity, or the unbridled force of the Vasari Exodus and Dark Fleets.

Image playing The Great War from the perspective of the TEC.  You start with no military and must rapidly retool your ships to military action before falling to the Vasari threat.  10 "years" into the game, the Advent arrive on a different front and you must fight against both.  As time passes, starbases are unlocked, eventually diplomatic channels open, and eventually rebellion ensues.  During this, the Vasari Loyalists become unstoppably powerful and using Vorastra titans plow through the heart of the TEC with the sole purpose of escaping with all possible haste.  As you seal the gaps, the more diplomatic Vasari Rebels begin to align themselves with the other races attempting to create a powerful "Trinity Alliance" (as has been called by others previously) to withstand their pursuers which crash into the Alliance.  Imagine that.

I have no idea who would have the attention span to play such a gametype, but..  Dude...  The SCALE!  Can you imagine?!  I can hardly.  Sure, this requires significant advances in processor speeds to handle such a game, but it would absolutely blow people's minds.

Not only that, but they could add oh so many new ships.  Defense Cruisers, Destroyers, faction specifics, etc.  So many possibilities.

After reading that, please point me in the direction to who I give my money to....

I personally would be willing to pre-order such a game at full price (whether it be 50 bucks or more) even if it was years away. Honestly, that would be a competitor for being at the top of the list of the best space RTS games of all time, and Sins as it is already has a place in such a list.

Yeah, being limited to 6 or so star systems kinda sucks

Use the galaxy forge. Managed to make a map with 30 or so stars, maybe more, and over 400 planets. Didn't lag too badly, but the load times were horrendus.

I would imagine that, that particular map, would lag horribly when all planets were explored/revealed and the game is 5+ hours in with all races having maxed out fleets. Yikes!

I built a map with 280 planets and 24 stars. Lagged like hell about mid-game, and that's with "Small fleet sizes."

64 bit procs have been around for 12 years.

Still don't really understand why Ironclad is so far behind the times... 

And 64-bit systems have only gained ground in the past 4-5 years or so. they were not widespread when the iron engine was made.

Because 64 bit has only really been the standard version put on new computers for a much shorter timespan.

Hell, they're STILL deploying Windows 7 x86 at my office because of incompatability with x64 issues.

The main issue is that they made an expansion instead of a sequel. Sins II wouldn't have these problems. It'd also be another couple of years until we got it.

Sins was primarily developed for Windows XP. Vista was brand new when Sins was released. 64 bit tech was "just starting" to catch on when Original Sins was released. We had multicore CPU's in 2008, but the majority of people at the time used 32 bit XP. Sins had the misfortune of being released during a major computer transition period.

Ironclad probably wont make Sins 2 anytime in the near future. They got their hands full with Sins of a Dark Age. I wouldnt expect anything SotSE related from IC for at least 5 years after Rebellion, but then again i've seen stranger things happen sooner.

Rebellion is being developed by Stardock with permission, and support from Ironclad.

Ironclad, and Stardock are not big game company's like EA/Bioware, or THQ/Relic. They only have a very few programmers, and artists working for them. Compared to the literal army of programmers EA has. Star/clad does not have the manpower, or resources to cost effectively convert the 32 bit Iron Engine into a 64 bit "Steel" engine. They are doing the best they can do with what is available to them right now. Just like us modders do the best we can with what we have to work with.

The only way i can see for a small company like Ironclad to cost effectively make Sins 64 bit, and multicore compatible is to make a completely new game. Sins 2.

That maybe the best explanation I have ever heard about why Sins is not 64x/multicore.