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Is Wail of the Sacrificed overpowered?

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Is Wail of the Sacrificed overpowered?

from Sins Forums

My understanding of the Advent Rebel ability, Wail of the Sacrificed, is that it does 20 damage for every point of population to all adjacent gravity wells.  So, if a planet with a population of 180 is sacrificed (like an ice) it would do 3600 points of damage to all ships and structures in adjacent wells.  That's worse than a missile barrage that affects the entire gravity well.

Is this ability overpowered?  Should researching it be a Level 8 ability and should there perhaps be a monetary/resource cost to using it as it stands now?

296,255 views 108 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Fyrstar2002, reply 65

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 54I think they should add a warning time of four seconds. Put it in the infopanel where it will say "Wail of the Sacrificed is being used". If you zoom out to see all the planets, maybe the planet with Wail can have a purple glow(ping?) around it. This would give the TEC time to react with Armistice. So far the known counters to wail are.

Armistice, Novalith for the TEC. Thats not to unreasonable. And then the other counters are for the Vasari(I only theory Crafted this I have no idea) the Kostura Cannon would allow you to phase jump towards the planet that has the Temple of Communion(assuming it is not connected to another High Pop. world). Also has anyone tested to see how armor/shield mitigation works against Wail.

 

You really think that in four seconds you can:

A:  Target the planet with the temple about to fire of WotS

B:  Kostura that planet

C:  Phase jump to that planet

D:  Take out the Temple

 

All in four seconds?  You'd need 5 minutes!  And the heck with giving ya'll 5 min warnings!

 

You do know that Wail does not effect the planet that the temple is in right? If you have a Kostura you should warp to the planet that has the Temple... Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76
Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Yottsu, reply 77
Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

I sneezed at it.... then I went and cleaned my screen off. I resolved to then borrow monitors the next time.

Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Yottsu, reply 77

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Well im speaking in terms of just countering Wail. The only race that have trouble with Wail is the Advent.

Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 79

Quoting Yottsu, reply 77
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Well im speaking in terms of just countering Wail. The only race that have trouble with Wail is the Advent.

 

Aye, the only faction without a pretty hard counter is the advent loyals- and they are even somewhat resistant as their ships a flying around with 27% shield mitigation even when out of combat.

 

That said, everyone has counters, the thing is to utilize those counters most factions need to anticipate the wail.  Once people get used to it and expect it it will be balanced- it may seem strong to some now only because they haven't yet learned to expect it and play accordingly.

Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top

Just caught myself thinking about this ability. Does the AI actually know how to use it? I highly doubt it...

Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting bilun, reply 80
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 79
Quoting Yottsu, reply 77
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Well im speaking in terms of just countering Wail. The only race that have trouble with Wail is the Advent.

 

Aye, the only faction without a pretty hard counter is the advent loyals- and they are even somewhat resistant as their ships a flying around with 27% shield mitigation even when out of combat.

 

That said, everyone has counters, the thing is to utilize those counters most factions need to anticipate the wail.  Once people get used to it and expect it it will be balanced- it may seem strong to some now only because they haven't yet learned to expect it and play accordingly.

 

ARE YOU SIRIOUS? 27% and thats without phase missle block-yikes

Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top

The problem is if you do not have nova or kosutra you are not allowed to defend gravity well next to highly populated planet with fleet or face consequences or red button on gravity well scale.

There is nowhere to hide.

Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top

Actually I'm fine with Wail, and concept of such weapons in general, as long as every race has something similar... and some kind of counter, even if it's not very obvious.

Otherwise, we risk Sins becoming spamfest.

Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top

Defend with Caps and Starbases while keeping Frigates one phase jump away.  A smart enemy won't waste Wail if the Frigates aren't in the gravity well, and if the opponent does use it early... well then just bring in the Frigates.

Not a perfect strategy but a lot better than hopeless.

If even Caps would be at risk because you're adjacent to a Terran, well that's a Terran- go capture it.

Also, while I haven't formally studied it I don't think Wail has been as effective against planetary defenses as I expected it to be.  Particularly, I seem to recall mines still being around after a Wail.  Of course, there are other issues with mine behavior right now, and I may simply be misremembering.  I'll try to check later if I have time.

 

Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top

You are correct, mines are not affected.

Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top

Mostly you have to make sure that these conditions are met when playing against Advent Rebels:

Make sure your planets are not aligned in a single line, you need planets in the back that are not in direct reach of enemy planets as safe point for your fleet, at the same time those planets should not be ten jumps away.

Try to take high population worlds around you and fortify yourself there, try to look for borders that favor your defense and simply cannot be wailed efficiently (worlds that have asteroids or moons, maybe even just space junk etc. next to them).

If the enemy manages to get a high population world, try to attack (if possible from different angles at once) and raid the planet, Marzas and Desolators should help (Ogrovs, too). Keep their constructors and temples down and run again. Try to build up a fleet at the same time to take/retake the planet. If you cannot manage to reach the planet for some time retreat your fleet and fortify your defenses/starbase there (Orkulus should laugh at wail methinks). Try to trick the enemy into using wail by sending in small fleets and waltzing around.

Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top

Would be nice is the space hippies could terraform a ruined world.  I'm sure some mods will find a way to reverse the Vasari world desolation ability so the ruined heap is turned into either a volcanic or desert world.

Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting bilun, reply 80

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 79
Quoting Yottsu, reply 77
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Well im speaking in terms of just countering Wail. The only race that have trouble with Wail is the Advent.

 

Aye, the only faction without a pretty hard counter is the advent loyals- and they are even somewhat resistant as their ships a flying around with 27% shield mitigation even when out of combat.

 

That said, everyone has counters, the thing is to utilize those counters most factions need to anticipate the wail.  Once people get used to it and expect it it will be balanced- it may seem strong to some now only because they haven't yet learned to expect it and play accordingly.

Bilun on a terran planet the damage is around 6000:p, that 27% will not save their ships! Both Advent factions do not have a counter to wail:P

Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top

Well their defense systems have a slight advantage due to shield bestowal I guess, but their frigates certainly won't be surviving the onslaught.

Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 89

Quoting bilun, reply 80
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 79
Quoting Yottsu, reply 77
Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 76Also I just remembered Vasari Loyalist can destroy planets. Keep that in mind.

Their level six titan ability is nothing to sneeze at either.

Well im speaking in terms of just countering Wail. The only race that have trouble with Wail is the Advent.

 

Aye, the only faction without a pretty hard counter is the advent loyals- and they are even somewhat resistant as their ships a flying around with 27% shield mitigation even when out of combat.

 

That said, everyone has counters, the thing is to utilize those counters most factions need to anticipate the wail.  Once people get used to it and expect it it will be balanced- it may seem strong to some now only because they haven't yet learned to expect it and play accordingly.

Bilun on a terran planet the damage is around 6000:p, that 27% will not save their ships! Both Advent factions do not have a counter to wail:P

 

Never said counter, I said "resistance", WHich is mostly to say  a large population is required to blow up the advent loyal fleet then say a TEC/Vasari fleet.  Not as god as a counter, but it's something.

Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting mcintire, reply 90
Well their defense systems have a slight advantage due to shield bestowal I guess, but their frigates certainly won't be surviving the onslaught.

Lets be honest here, if you are getting offensively pushed by wail, you more than likely already lost the game. Wail is just speeding that up.

Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top

I neaver argued against that. There are a few situations in earlygame where wail could play a role, but I highly doubt it'd be as devestating as it was in that particular situation, considering how often borders shift back and forth in earlygame. There is hardly time to gather as much population.

Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top

I honestly think it's a one-off. trying to pull it off more than once in a game is really difficult and unlikely

Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top

I actually want to swap ultimates on the two Advent titans so I can instant capture a planet and then Wail with it.  That would be, groovy man.

Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Sinperium, reply 95
to swap ultimates on the two Advent titans so I can instant capture

 

Repossessed planets start at 0 population just like normally colonized planets(they also lose all planetary improvements and start building from 1 planetary HP like a normally colonized planet).   Besides thematics and the fact that you instantly gain control of an enemy planet, the newly acquired planet is in no way different from a freshly colonized planet(well the allegiance stays the same, but that's probably a bug).

Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top

Still--it would get you on the road.

Too bad you can't up population with colony ships.

Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting bilun, reply 96

Quoting Sinperium, reply 95to swap ultimates on the two Advent titans so I can instant capture

 

Repossessed planets start at 0 population just like normally colonized planets(they also lose all planetary improvements and start building from 1 planetary HP like a normally colonized planet).   Besides thematics and the fact that you instantly gain control of an enemy planet, the newly acquired planet is in no way different from a freshly colonized planet(well the allegiance stays the same, but that's probably a bug).

To be honest. Thats kind of a crappy ultimate, I had no idea it didn't keep the planet upgrades. YOu may as well just bomb the planet and recolonize it cause there isnt much of a difference...

Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top

Is it supposed to work on pirates? 

 

Tried using it on an adjacent pirate base and it didn't do anything at all >.>

 

Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top

You're saying the ships there didn't die or take damage?