My thoughts on the new Advent Techs

from Sins Forums

Advent Loyalists:

The Loyalists techs were IMO pretty well implemented. They have a cohesive theme in what sort of play they promote and for the most part accomplish their purposes.  I'm only going to discuss technologies I have a complain with

 

Planet for a Planet & Assimilated Populace:  These two technologies have similar effects(if opposite in thier activation conditions).  By and large they're good.  My only complaint is that despite saying they improve your ships's weapons neither affects strikecraft as far as I can tell.  Which basically means carrier heavy fleets gleen absolutely no benefit from the two largest combat bonuses technologies of the advent loyalists.  This is especially a bummer in that with the amount of AoE damage flying around these days Carrier fleets would otherwise be very attractive being that the drone host is by a large margin the Advent's beefiest Frigate.  Ancient Rettribution also probably doesn't affect strikecraft, but I'm not completely sure.  That said, other then that, these abilities are both great.

 

Global Unity:   A lot of people were excited for this tech when it was dug up in the game files, but the current implementation reall stifles it's usefulness.  1 culture/sec isn't going to push back enemy culture, meaning it's chief usefulness is in ensuring all of your worlds fall under friendly culture(for improve allegiance & combat benefits) without having to build a ton of temples.  The problem is, it's so late in the research tree and more importantly has enough high cost prerequisites that by the time you can get it you already have friendly culture spread throughout your holdings.  This needs to be either available earlier in the tree or have a new effect.

 

Advent Rebels:

 

I think in general the Rebels need a bit more work done with their technologies. 

 

Protection of the Unity:  Feels a bit underwhelming for a T8 research subject.  I suspect the extra 2% shield mitigation the advent loyals get make about as much of a difference in survivability(this will likely give what? maybe 1 extra shield regen per second for most ships?). 

 

Recharge Shields: Between this, Repulsion, and Wail of the Sacrificed it feels like the Rebs are meant to turtle more then the loyals.  That said, the stage of the game a shield-repair structure would really be useful is early game, when the rebels are trying to survive to the point where they get their techs(pretty much all of their technologies require a ton of labs).  I'd like to see the ability to repair shields stay on repair bays in addition to temples of renewal(even if that is currently a bug) and have this technology moved to T2 or T3 military tree with repair bays as a prerequisite. 

 

Return of the Fallen & Reanimation:  While I'm not proposing any changes I want to ask: Do these even work? I've never noticed them activating, but then again the larger battles where activations may be common it would likely be easy to overlook a few units reviving.  

 

Cleanse and Renew: This technology is decent.  That said, one problem the advent rebels have IMO is the rate they can destroy planets.  Between TEC loyal novaliths, TEC rebel bombardment technologies & the extreme damage of the TRT, and advent loyalist culture & the ability to instantly take planets with their titan the Advent Rebels are being left in the proverbial dust in terms of the rate they can conquer planets late game.  This tech would be the obvious place to address these issues.  Maybe add a secondary effect- something like +25% bombing rate of fire for all capital ships & titans to this technology?  Would let Advent rebels bombard a bit faster lategame and let the Eradica live up to it's name(with a name like Eradica, it seems an obvious candidate for planet extermination)

 

Mass Communion:  Feels underwhelming.  I suppose the goal is supposed to be while the Advent loyals go for early cultural expansion, the advent rebels are better at culture-bombing from behind well-fortified worlds.  The problem is that getting to this technology is very expensive.  it takes quite a few temples to make up for the money spent researching this tech.  I could see a few ways of expanding the benefits of this tech: the 25% discount could be extended to starbase Evangelism Nodes or have this technology also reduce the logistics used up by temple of communion(perhaps from 4 logistics to 3?).  

 

All other techs seem fine to me.  It might be interesting if expulsion's tax or culture benefit were swapped out for population growth rate to synergize with wail of the forsaken, but such changes are in no way necessary.

 

8,186 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

While I'm not proposing any changes I want to ask: Do these even work? I've never noticed them activating, but then again the larger battles where activations may be common it would likely be easy to overlook a few units reviving.

I don't think they work, so I wouldn't judge the Rebels too quickly because these are clearly supposed to be two of their best researches.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1

While I'm not proposing any changes I want to ask: Do these even work? I've never noticed them activating, but then again the larger battles where activations may be common it would likely be easy to overlook a few units reviving.

I don't think they work, so I wouldn't judge the Rebels too quickly because these are clearly supposed to be two of their best researches.
I really hope so, I haven't noticed any ships reviving and like you said these tech seem like the core of the Advent Rebels military. If it is working then it needs a more noticeable visual because it's easy to miss.

@op I think you're right on with global unity, I think it needs to be moved down 1 or two tiers.

on the topic of Advent rebels anti planet capabilities, they still have the Revelation's level 6 ability which is great for taking out high health worlds. I don't think every faction needs to have some special anti planet weapon.

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Let me first say that overall, I believe the tooltips on most new abilities should be more clear about what they do, like Ancient Retribution: does it only work against TEC? Or everyone?

What exactly does Planet for a Planet do? Do I really have to play a game and get my planets bombed to hell to find out exactly what it does?

 

Now, a word on Advent Rebels, the ones I play the most and plan on keeping playing with:

Protection of the Unity: Feels a bit underwhelming for a T8 research subject. I suspect the extra 2% shield mitigation the advent loyals get make about as much of a difference in survivability(this will likely give what? maybe 1 extra shield regen per second for most ships?).

I thought this one was pretty awesome. I was trying to get my Eradica killed to witness it's final ability in action but the enemy gauss platforms, after a few of them got ineviatbly got taken out, just couldn't punch through my shields. That's 5-6 pirate gauss platforms firing at my Titan and still the shields went from 200 to 1000 within a few seconds before my very eyes, while still being fired at.

Now combine this with Progenitor Motherships, Iconus Guardians and Cleanse and Renew and you've got some shields that will be able to take a massive amount of damage before going down. Your Progenitors, fed by the 75% increased antimatter regeneration will be able to regenerate shields almost permanently, backed up by the passive 100% bonus.

 

Recharge Shields: Between this, Repulsion, and Wail of the Sacrificed it feels like the Rebs are meant to turtle more then the loyals. That said, the stage of the game a shield-repair structure would really be useful is early game, when the rebels are trying to survive to the point where they get their techs(pretty much all of their technologies require a ton of labs). I'd like to see the ability to repair shields stay on repair bays in addition to temples of renewal(even if that is currently a bug) and have this technology moved to T2 or T3 military tree with repair bays as a prerequisite.

Rebels ARE meant to be the defensive faction. They are trying to restore and preserve the Unity, protect it. Just because TEC Loyalists are the defensive ones does not mean the others will be the same.

Personally I wouldn't mind having this tech moved to earlier tier, but it might become troublesome when you combine it with Shield Bestowal, Synergy and your Repair Platforms.

Return of the Fallen & Reanimation: While I'm not proposing any changes I want to ask: Do these even work? I've never noticed them activating, but then again the larger battles where activations may be common it would likely be easy to overlook a few units reviving.

 Cleanse and Renew: This technology is decent. That said, one problem the advent rebels have IMO is the rate they can destroy planets. Between TEC loyal novaliths, TEC rebel bombardment technologies & the extreme damage of the TRT, and advent loyalist culture & the ability to instantly take planets with their titan the Advent Rebels are being left in the proverbial dust in terms of the rate they can conquer planets late game. This tech would be the obvious place to address these issues. Maybe add a secondary effect- something like +25% bombing rate of fire for all capital ships & titans to this technology? Would let Advent rebels bombard a bit faster lategame and let the Eradica live up to it's name(with a name like Eradica, it seems an obvious candidate for planet extermination)

 

I am inclined to agree on both these points. I didn't really mind the lack of planet bombing tech but now that you compare it to what every other faction has, it does seem lacking.

I've also never witnessed either of the Return of the Fallen or Reanimation abilities working.

 

Mass Communion: Feels underwhelming. I suppose the goal is supposed to be while the Advent loyals go for early cultural expansion, the advent rebels are better at culture-bombing from behind well-fortified worlds. The problem is that getting to this technology is very expensive. it takes quite a few temples to make up for the money spent researching this tech. I could see a few ways of expanding the benefits of this tech: the 25% discount could be extended to starbase Evangelism Nodes or have this technology also reduce the logistics used up by temple of communion(perhaps from 4 logistics to 3?).

Once again, I agree. The tech is too far in the tree to be worthwhile. The only reason I would still be building temples that late in the game is to use Wail of the Sacrificed, which is an absolute godly ability if you ask me.

Other than that, I rely on star bases for culture more than on temples.

But having the temple's logistics cost reduced from 4 to 3 probably won't do much, since most logistics structures cost 4, having 1 free won't do you any good, unless you build four temples at one planet then you'll have enough free slots for one more building.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

For Mass Communion, move it to tier 3 and give it two levels.  An earlier 50% cost decrease would be pretty significant.  Right now it's definitely too far up the tree.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting lbgsloan, reply 4
For Mass Communion, move it to tier 3 and give it two levels.  An earlier 50% cost decrease would be pretty significant.  Right now it's definitely too far up the tree.

 

While that would certainly make it good, my only concern is it would make it fill much the same role as the Advent loyalist's early culture techs.  I'd rather see the rebels diversified so they work differently.

 

Honestly I think it would be cool if the loyalists were about early quick culture expansion and the rebels were better at late game culture-bombing, overpowering enemy culture even if they have a media hub or two near the culture bomb.

 

 

The more I think about it the more the idea of extending the current 25% discount to starbase Evangelism Nodes appeals to me(basically becomes a 25% cut on all culture structures).  

I do like the idea of adding a second rank though- nothing spells the ability to create a truly horrifying culture bomb like a a 40-50%  reduction in cost(could be reduced to 20/40% if 25/50% were too strong as it might well be).  

 

Would also give rebels another tool for grabbing planets late game which as I said they are a bit lacking in compared to the other 3 factions.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Mass Communion should be accessible a lot earlier. Tier 3 or maybe even tier 2 without any requirements. I'd like to have the cheaper temples BEFORE I build my temples.