SageWon SageWon

I fear, the Advent are too WEAK!

I fear, the Advent are too WEAK!

plz prove me wrong (0.75 initial Beta release).

Why? 

1.  Because they have nothing (new or old) below tier 3.  This is where they were hurting before.  A weak early game. 

2.  Their cap ship buffs are less than what TEC recieved!  And their cap ships were already generally weaker before.  The single action protection of high sheilds is just not as good as the dual protection of hulls and armor.

Advent were so weak in 1.34 (Diplomacy) that nobody played them online anymore.  Just ask any of the pros.  Now they look even weaker IMO.

114,481 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting Qu4r, reply 5
Advent become insanley powerfull early game. With new cap ship and progen synergy they will ripp everything.

I already see zounds of defence vesels and skirms suported by progen and new cap with reduce armor ability.

Or zounds of oped  corvets supported by scirms to blow enymy flaks.

Also they can bring titans much earlier then tec , so i see short life for other  races on the edge.

Thanks god titans r week  and loyal tit has a firepower of kol

Also they will pawn late game with their max abilities. the only gap is middle game.

Since advent titans cant much tec one, they will spamm bombers to get air superiority so, l te loyalist already  got buffed

For tec rebels against advent ,kol is must have, or even 2.

 

Whats concerns me most , i fear vasari wont have any answer for early advent fleet other then SB.

Hmm I wouldn't be surprised if the vasari corvette is the strongest of the 3 races.  Vasari can spam flak early

Although vs a discordia/progen/corvette group the vasari will have some issues, they will survive if they have their starbase up.  Although, now with the domina healing fix, I feel the advent will actually stand a fighting chance vs. the vasari and TEC fleet in the endgame...can't wait to test out the theories on u quar when the vasari come out. 

Reply #27 Top

Well, i got my revenge. I had forgotten what the Advent are all about: shields, strikecraft and combined special abilities :grin:

Still to me it seems that Advent (rebels) corevttes get destroyed much quicker than TEC ones.

Reply #29 Top

Did anyone even get to test the advent in multiplayer vs. the TEC?

 

Reply #30 Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 26

Quoting Qu4r, reply 5Advent become insanley powerfull early game. With new cap ship and progen synergy they will ripp everything.

I already see zounds of defence vesels and skirms suported by progen and new cap with reduce armor ability.

Or zounds of oped  corvets supported by scirms to blow enymy flaks.

Also they can bring titans much earlier then tec , so i see short life for other  races on the edge.

Thanks god titans r week  and loyal tit has a firepower of kol

Also they will pawn late game with their max abilities. the only gap is middle game.

Since advent titans cant much tec one, they will spamm bombers to get air superiority so, l te loyalist already  got buffed

For tec rebels against advent ,kol is must have, or even 2.

 

Whats concerns me most , i fear vasari wont have any answer for early advent fleet other then SB.


Hmm I wouldn't be surprised if the vasari corvette is the strongest of the 3 races.  Vasari can spam flak early

Although vs a discordia/progen/corvette group the vasari will have some issues, they will survive if they have their starbase up.  Although, now with the domina healing fix, I feel the advent will actually stand a fighting chance vs. the vasari and TEC fleet in the endgame...can't wait to test out the theories on u quar when the vasari come out. 

Their corvettes are not the strongest, from what I can tell. I still rather have the Advent Loyalist or Rebel corvette.

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Mr., reply 25
Advent Rebel Corvettes work wonders on Starbases as well funnily enough.

Since almost all of the weapons on all 3 Starbases are energy weapons, their debuff drastically reduces incoming damage, combine it with Guardians and a Progenitor and survivability skyrockets.

MR HAZE DONT FORGET VERTIGO! why is it people always forget about vertigo! Its an insane debuff ability at level 3: One gigantic cloud of "every enemy within 4500km miss your shots and be useless-including bombers and fighters!"

Now with the discords armor debuff its " every enemy within 4500km looses a chunk of their armor.

Can someone tell me how the discords armor debuff levels up? 


 

Domina-Quote sins wiki:

PerseveranceEdit

Official Description: Invokes a divine aura around a friendly target, which makes it immune to disablement and restores its hull over time. This is a channeling ability.

 


 

Does the target ship become invulnerable during repairs? I'd understand if that's the reason it was greatly nerfed but does this remain the same and does it still need to face its target?Actually with auto-attack on it did just fine in 1.34 if you manually told them to repair caps during battles-so long as you don't mess up the channeling. 

 

Reply #32 Top

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 31
"every enemy within 4500km miss your shots and be useless-including bombers and fighters!"

Vertigo does not affect SC...

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 31
Does the target ship become invulnerable during repairs?

It is not vulnerable to disablement...for example, a ship under the influence of perseverance wouldn't be affected by an Akkan's ion bolt...

Reply #33 Top

Domina in the now repealed .75 beta didn't seem at all fixed AI wise, never used Perseverance once automatically (while all conditions that would/should trigger it were in effect) it does still require the ship to face the target but it is not channeled now at least. (though the text is still saying it is, it's not)

Reply #34 Top

 

 

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 32

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 31"every enemy within 4500km miss your shots and be useless-including bombers and fighters!"

Vertigo does not affect SC...

.

 

Yes it does: Not bombers, but fighters  :annoyed:

 

 

https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Vertigo

 

be sure to remember that

 

Unfortunately only frigates-not caps, no structures so as a starbase defense you have to use the offensive vengeance.  

 

Quote TEXT:

Reduces Hit Chance and increases weapon cooldown of affected enemy forces. Extracted from the game.

The effective damage reduction on affected units from the combined penalty is: 19% -> 36% -> 51%

There is no limit to the number of affected targets, so this ability is particularly effective against tightly clustered Advent forces. This is also one of the few ways Advent has to reduce the damage they receive from phase missiles, making it very useful when fighting Vasari. Remember that Vertigo's cooldown is shorter than its duration, so leaving it on autocast could cause it to waste antimatter on targets that are already under the effect.

This ability is useful to reduce the performance of some kind of ship you do not want to fulfill its function, for example, reduce the damage

caused by long-range vessels.


Discord Battleships Fracture: 

Range: 4500 -> 5000 -> 5500 -> 6000
Effect(s):
  • Armor: -2 -> -3 -> -4 -> -5

  :D



Reply #35 Top

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 31
[quote who="Mr Haze" reply="25" id="3117986"]Advent Rebel Corvettes work wonders on Starbases as well funnily enough.

Since almost all of the weapons on all 3 Starbases are energy weapons, their debuff drastically reduces incoming damage, combine it with Guardians and a Progenitor and survivability skyrockets.



MR HAZE DONT FORGET VERTIGO! why is it people always forget about vertigo! Its an insane debuff ability at level 3: One gigantic cloud of "every enemy within 4500km miss your shots and be useless-including bombers and fighters!"
[/quote]

Wait wait wait wait wait.

Vertigo works against Starbases? Because I was talking about Starbases assaults, otherwise I'd have definitely thrown Vertigo into the equation.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 32
Vertigo does not affect SC...

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 34
Yes it does: ...fighters

Actually, you're both right. Vertigo works by casting a buff at either a frigate or strikecraft (AKA fighters RiddleKing, internally Sins can't tell the difference between fighters and bombers). Then it applies the rate of fire and chance to hit debuff on all frigates near the target. So you can actually target fighters as the center of the buffs affect, but no strikecraft will actually get the negative buff.

That said this is a rather weird way to do the ability so it might be an oversight. Also I seem to remember it also affecting captialships, but it looks like frigates really are the only thing to be affected by it. :S

Reply #37 Top

Bottomline: Vertigo does not affect SC...be interesting if it did though...

Anyway, people should really stop quoting the Sins Wiki, it's known to be less than accurate...

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 36
Also I seem to remember it also affecting captialships, but it looks like frigates really are the only thing to be affected by it.

Well, it might have worked like that in an older version of Sins, but I don't know how you'd check that...maybe Harpo has archived game files?

Reply #38 Top

I have tried to improve it, but since I can't play anything Sins at the moment, its kind of hard. Its missing all patches since 1.32 for Diplomacy/Trinity.

Reply #39 Top

Lots of great comments, some that I would like to refute, but its a moot point now, that the Advent are gone.

But Sareth (Carpetbomb - Advent Pro online) made some interesting comments.  In particular regarding TEC Rebel's TAR:

Quoting sareth01, reply 3
-One thing to be tested is to see how fast the advent eco is compared to the TEC...It feels much slower right out of the gate, but the pressure the advent can put on the TEC early on will hopefully become a nice balance. As it is I really foresee some serious issues with advent facing a TEC Rebel Truce Among Rogues planet grab...I can't wait to test out what kind of crazy culture war will occur with that fight. Right now I see the advent having a little difficulty securing chokepoint planets (as usual). That shield repair platform is awesome...

Yes, the TEC Rebel Truce Among Rogues planet grab is a concern.  I've played 5v5s online, where the eco guy dominates by rushing to TAR.

The Advent Economy still sucked from what I saw.  I was truely and supremely dismayed to see that Mothership's Colonize bonus had also been NERFED even more!  Despite all of the calls to rebuff it a little after the 1.18 nerf!  It was now at -15% for level 1, and -27% for level 2.  That ability is/was the Advent's only early game eco advantage.

Early Culture (T2 upgrades) especially didn't look that much better to me. (I am suggesting a doubling of culture speed thru neutral planets. ie: non hostile, non owned planets). 

That shield repair platform was tier 6!!!  It needs to be put on Hangers (T1), or T2 Repair, or at max T3 Hanger Sheild Bestowal (for Cap Ships too/only).

Reply #40 Top

@ Sagewon Thanks for the compliment :)

Yes that shield repair facility should be Military tier 2-3 tops, it should be the early game defensive advantage the advent rebels bring to the game.  In this way advent capitals would be less threatened in general and this would go a long way to making them "feel" different then their loyalist counterparts.

I would say the biggest help to the advent countering a TAR planet grab would be to have the cheapest planet bombers in the game.  Cheaper in logistics and credit cost, to give the advent fleet the much needed bombing power that they are supposed to have (having a tech level 1 planet bomber).  Since these planet bombers are SO easily killed, this would retain balance. This gives the advent an added dangerous and possibly effective rush capability.  It would still gimp their fleet in fleet vs fleet actions, so a counter rush of pure fleet combat frigates would likely win, and balance would be maintained overall(in fact the counter is so easy, just upgrade planet health ahead of time!!!!).  The advent don't have any effective bombing capital ship abilities (and yes, i'm factoring in that horrible capital level 6 ability).  I feel they were intended based upon their design to have a much more capable early bombing fleet.  The cost reduction need not be much, say they cost 500 credits, 75 metal, and 65 crystal, and a reduction in logistics requirements.  They already are the easiest bombers to take out after all :).  A progenitor bomber rush could still be easily countered by corvettes/scouts/turrets, so I don't see the problem here.  A rush with the discordia + planet bombers would be a bit nasty, at the same time all you need is some lrm to take that beast out fast, an easy thing for the other races to acquire.

Also, the progenitor mothership should retain the current price reduction, with one addition.  It should apply to construction costs as well, so your whole planet gets built up a little faster and cheaper.  This retains balance because later on this matters FAR less, and the progenitor has to level up as well...which is a slow process.

I would say that having advent trade ports cost less then TEC ones would be an interesting way to balance them out(say the advent ones cost the old amount, 750 cred, 100 metal, 125 crystal).  The TEC have VERY cheap metal and crystal extraction rate upgrades, and this more then makes up for a higher cost trade port.  The TEC would still be much faster at acquiring tradeports then the other races... and gaining a supreme economic advantage even if their trade ports cost a little more.

Since early trade is a HUGE advantage, this should be tempered somewhat...As I see it TEC have almost no vulnerability early on if they eco early and successfully hold the first skirmishes(which is very easy to do with their very strong repair platforms).  This presents a large problem because the TEC win by inherent strength of economy alone.  There is only a little  skill involved in this tactic.. cheap defensive measures that are effective hold the line and then you get your super fleet and roll on through. You aren't having as much fun because you are sitting waiting for time to pass by, and your opponent isn't having much fun because they can't attack you and know they are slowly losing.

I'm not advocating for getting rid of these stalemates alltogether, i would say temper their effectiveness so that this isn't a very strong strategy for success...make it take more effort.