Balance issues for TEC

from Sins Forums

Ok so I was playing a multiplayer game when I truly realized the balance issues between the loyalists and rebels and these are what I found.

 

 

1. To start off the loyalist factions titan needs alot of ability balance change. I was fighting 1on1 titan same faction with another player same level but im not sure what abilities. There was one ability we both had in common the repair titan ability. After watching the fight for about 15 min both titans shields went down but neither were suffering much damage because of this repair ability. I got so bored watching it I made my titan left and both me and my opponent were blabbering on about how stupid and pointless that battle was. This ability also really made me happy but knows how unfair it was when I faced a level 7 rebel titan against my level 2 titan with the ability to repair of course. The fight was 1 on 1 but guess who won not the overly powered gun of the rebels but me because of this ability which needs to change.

 

2.The new capital ship was the first thing I built when I started and figured out 2 or 3 battles later that it really sucks. It really didn't impress me at all how underpowered it was even by capital ship standards. The new capital needs an overhaul because after that first game using it I never wanted to use it again at all, I'm sure that people would agree with the little to no strategic value it is.

 

3. The loyalist faction was said in interviews of the game to be a defensive people but I never realized how defensive they were and how the rebels have no chance of victory. I was playing a multilayer game on a edited map someone created where a single planet led was the only place to get to either side of the solar system. I had control and had all my military research set. Knowing you can build 2 starbases I completely maxed them out with shields weapons and fighters spawned a ton of guass defense platforms and spammed the gravity well with mines with a massive fleet guarding it. My opponent jumped and sat there because he didnt want to even fight me he was the rebel faction and a level 9 titan with about 160 LRM's with him. I just sat there so I could lure him to the starbases so I could easily take his fleet out. He turned around and eventually came back to destroy me but failed. He lost his titan twice and after a while he rage quited the game. I always found myself playing the Loyalists faction the whole time because of the clear advantage they had over the rebels.

 

4.The corvettes are pointless although i loved spamming them to death. They are pathetic and stupid with little to no strategic value. The devs said that the corvettes were overpowered fighters, what i lie that was. I found 1 squadron of bombers did more damage than 5 corvettes did attacking the same target. Please fix the corvettes they need more firepower to be an overpowered fighter.

 

These are the balance issues I discovered from what I played. The research for each factions I thought was fair for both sides. I can't wait to play my favorite race the Advent and totally own with them. Hope this is helpful devs.

 

 

60,402 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

1. I agree the loyalist titan can repair itself too fast, you can just park it in front of a starbase, get some coffee, take a shower, go shopping and when you return the starbase will be destroyed.

2. I wouldn't say it's completely useless just yet, it's just that nobody has completely figured out how to use them correctly. Chances are someone will develop a strategy and it'll be considered overpowered in the near future. Or not :p

3. Well that's a rather situational advantage, of course the loyalist will be stronger on that particular map. I wouldn't say rebels have no chance of victory just because of that.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Halos, reply 1
1. I agree the loyalist titan can repair itself too fast, you can just park it in front of a starbase, get some coffee, take a shower, go shopping and when you return the starbase will be destroyed.
that is bs i nearly lost my lvl 8 ankylon fighting a full upgrade sb i had to retreat so it wouldnt get blown up

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

my ankylon was fighting my enemy's ankylon and while he was definitely wearing me down, im not sure either of our titans got below 10,000 hp before i surrendered (his ally destroyed my homeworld about 5 minutes prior).  Our supporting fleets merely served to level each other's titan rather than do any appreciable damage.  

I was able to destroy his relatively un-upgraded starbase when my ankylon was maybe 4 or 5 but it seemed to take a while.  I can't speak to a fully armed sb.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I thought most of the difference between rebel and loyalist were too high in the research tree,

Having talked about two star bases in the gravity well, I was surprised to find it as a 10th level research item. When you can build the titan at a level 4 research item this is a little late in the game.

i.e. have to expand quickly and early to make use of the turtle feature they described later in the game.

I would like to see the divergent technologies to be available earlier please.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting thedarkelf007, reply 4
I thought most of the difference between rebel and loyalist were too high in the research tree,

Having talked about two star bases in the gravity well, I was surprised to find it as a 10th level research item. When you can build the titan at a level 4 research item this is a little late in the game.

i.e. have to expand quickly and early to make use of the turtle feature they described later in the game.

I would like to see the divergent technologies to be available earlier please.
I completely agree with what's stated here. The Loyalists need to be able to turtle effectively much earlier in the game. Because a second star base in a gravity well can make a huge difference when the titans start moving around, techs that enable faction specific features like this, should become more easily accessible.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius, reply 5

Quoting thedarkelf007, reply 4I thought most of the difference between rebel and loyalist were too high in the research tree...

Agreed. It wasn't until mid-late game that I actually realized that I was was having a different experience with loyalists then with rebels. And I was a sad panda. 

 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting thedarkelf007, reply 4
I thought most of the difference between rebel and loyalist were too high in the research tree,

Having talked about two star bases in the gravity well, I was surprised to find it as a 10th level research item. When you can build the titan at a level 4 research item this is a little late in the game.

i.e. have to expand quickly and early to make use of the turtle feature they described later in the game.

I would like to see the divergent technologies to be available earlier please.

 

Agreed. Until you have a Titan/you have 7+ Labs Loyalist Gameplay isn´t very different from Rebell Gameplay, I would deffinately endorse more differences between Localist and Rebell ships/technologies/etc.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Infydar, reply 7

Quoting thedarkelf007, reply 4I thought most of the difference between rebel and loyalist were too high in the research tree,

Having talked about two star bases in the gravity well, I was surprised to find it as a 10th level research item. When you can build the titan at a level 4 research item this is a little late in the game.

i.e. have to expand quickly and early to make use of the turtle feature they described later in the game.

I would like to see the divergent technologies to be available earlier please.

 

Agreed. Until you have a Titan/you have 7+ Labs Loyalist Gameplay isn´t very different from Rebell Gameplay, I would deffinately endorse more differences between Localist and Rebell ships/technologies/etc.

 

Yes, that would indeed be nice.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Sounds like you all are playing rebels wrong then.

 

My rebel strausing to use the Truce tech. By going for it immediately and building one or 2 colony ships you can conquer many wells with no additional resources. You can then use the saved resources on upping your economy thus raising your resource input well beyond the loyalits.

 

After that you just build the Titan and can do so easily with just a little luck on start (close wells and resources). 

 

This strat is obviously different than loyalists.ANSI in fact IMO rebels are over powered because of it. After you getyour Titan, which is wayyyy before the loyalists, you attack home world. 

 

If you play rebels be very quick to use the truce tech. No point if the neutrals are "neutralized" by your enemies. After that be as aggressive as you can. 

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting brain_Teaser, reply 9
Sounds like you all are playing rebels wrong then.

 

My rebel strausing to use the Truce tech. By going for it immediately and building one or 2 colony ships you can conquer many wells with no additional resources. You can then use the saved resources on upping your economy thus raising your resource input well beyond the loyalits.

 

After that you just build the Titan and can do so easily with just a little luck on start (close wells and resources). 

 

This strat is obviously different than loyalists.ANSI in fact IMO rebels are over powered because of it. After you getyour Titan, which is wayyyy before the loyalists, you attack home world. 

 

If you play rebels be very quick to use the truce tech. No point if the neutrals are "neutralized" by your enemies. After that be as aggressive as you can. 

 

I completely agree. Truce Among Rogues is, in my opinion, by far the most potent new ability. It is the reason why I always go Rebel. I rush for it and obtain a significant advantage early in the game.

This is why I asked (in a separate post) to move *some* of the Loyalist research down the tech tree. Where Rebels seem to shine in the early game, Loyalists need to wait until the late game. (2 star bases for example.)

I wouldn't exaggerate in boosting the Loyalists' early game potential, however.

I think things work out pretty well the way they are. With the Rebels gaining the upper hand in the early game because of Truce Among Rogues, the Loyalist are forced to dig in against a superior fleet. Digging in is what Loyalists are supposed to do, so, good.

They do need some help in effectively digging in in the early game, however. Which is why I'd move one or two Loyalist defence researches down the tech tree. (Also to simply provide the Loyalist with defining characteristics in the early game.)

Back to Truce Among Rogues. When I first figured out the advantage it could get you (getting a lot of planets very quickly), I thought to myself: yeah, this is overpowered. They need to fix this. I have given it some more thought however, and think it might be fine the way it is.

1. I very much like the ability itself. It is innovative and we've seen nothing quite like it. It is what characterises the Rebels most. Taking it out of the game would be a shame.

2. Moving it up on the tech tree would make it quite useless. I have always felt Pirates can do the most damage in the early game, so a late game alliance with them would not be a priority. An alliance with other neutral factions is even more useless in the late game. Chances are they will be wiped out by then.

3. Rushing for Truce Among Rogues is not always easy. It has some serious disadvantages. Focusing on Civilian Labs means postponed access to critical early game military technology, such as repair platforms and Javelis Frigates. Also, expanding quickly is a costly business that hinders military expansion and even comes with the risk of over-expansion. (Bleeding cash and/or poor defences at newly gained planets, vulnerable to attack.) Ironically, rushing for TAR means an aggressive race like the Rebels is not very aggressive in the early game.

4. If you manage a successful rush for TAR, you need to make the economic advantage work for you before too long. Before your Loyalist enemy's defences become to strong, before he gets his superior Titan (which I feel needs some down tuning, but that is a different discussion), or before he catches up with you in general.

5. The early game vulnerability that comes with a rush for TAR as well as the race against the clock that follows it, provides a Rebel player with the feeling of being in a certain underdog position. Which is, of course, exactly right for a Rebel. I realise the Loyalist player might feel the same way when he is being outnumbered, but if he digs in properly (partially thanks to Loyalist research), he should feel safe. And the Rebel would have to challenge the Loyalist('s defences). Which once again feels about right.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Very good points.

 

Yeah I don't want it removed or moved in the tree. Not sure what the answer is. But you have good points :-)

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

You could make the argument that the Loyalist's Titan IS their early-mid game advantage

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting kylone, reply 12
You could make the argument that the Loyalist's Titan IS their early-mid game advantage

Indeed.

Although there are many examples on these forums of it being overpowered. My personal experience: (moderate) fleet (including 5 cap ships and also Hoshiko's, Kodiaks, ...) + lvl3 rebel titan + neutral defenders VS a sole lvl7 loyalist titan shouldn't have ended in favor of the loyalist titan.

The way things are right now (TAR and the other researches), I have no problems with the loyalist titan being more powerful than the rebel titan. It has been implied: Loyalists dig in and work on super weapons behind their defences. A great concept, and I'm sure a lot of players favor this kind of gameplay. But there are limits :)

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Yesterday i ran with my sole Ankylon at lvl6 into 8 enemy capships and it was going to fail hard. I was not keeping attention on what exactly is happening the whole time, but when i zoomed in, the Ankylon had half of the hull gone. So perhaps it is not as overpowered. 

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Well, Loyalists get Counter Deployment early, which speeds up ship production while enemies are within the gravity well. That's their early game buff.

The Loyalists Titan is significantly stronger defending rather than attacking. Keep that in mind when assessing it.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 14
Yesterday i ran with my sole Ankylon at lvl6 into 8 enemy capships and it was going to fail hard. I was not keeping attention on what exactly is happening the whole time, but when i zoomed in, the Ankylon had half of the hull gone. So perhaps it is not as overpowered. 

Could it have had something to do with a specific ability? Like "abilities disabled" on Akylon?

Or is it possible that the regenerative ability was cooling down? I've seen the Ankylon's HP go up from low to (near) full HP several times in one battle.

I don't want to question your story, it's just that I've seen and read about a lot of situations in which the Ankylon proved to be ridiculously powerful.