Titan are too easy to build (same for novas)

I think it's fine to be honest since you spend 150 fleet supply and 2 cap ship points to get it. The problem is how one titan is unkillable for now. Namely that ankylon. Does not want to die. Also I found out something interesting. Don't know if it's a bug or intended. I lost my lvl 7 rebel titan due to stupidly jumping into a grav well with 12 cap ships and I decided to take them on solo  . Found out that if you build the titan again, it keeps levels but leaves points unspent, so you can think of it as a respec.

yep, some people told me the same after i killed their titan, it kept its level, i don't think thats good, kind of defeats the point of killing titan (exept for the cost ... witch isnt so much once you have the techs and the factory)

Also, 15min to get a titan is a real problem for mp, even if the titan wasen't invulnerable, i think its too easy

Then again, you're right about the main problem being the invulnerability

When titans were introduced I thought they would be a lot farther up the techtree, possibly even requiring both civilian and military research (civilian for the station, maybe?).  As it is, they're way too powerful for where they are, especially because it's so hard to kill the Ankylon and nothing early-game can compete with them (especially considering how easy it is to level them up against a pirate base).

If it keeps its level upon death that's just weird, and seems like a bad idea.

I've only played offline, but I'd agree that they are too easy to build. Given in my case the AI isn't providing much pushback or forcing me to spend much in the short term for planet defense, the relative cost of the tech tree unlocks themselves seems low. It's such a game changer, I would of thought the last unlock for Titan development would be in the last tech level.

*edit* Now that I think about it, the amount of XP needed to unlock these uber-powerful upgrades also seems low. Leveling up a Titan is remarkably quick considering it destroys everything in its path and requires remarkable means to destroy. It practically just absorbs the xp from enemy ships in the same gravity well via osmosis.

Agreed. I hate that Novalith are now forcing very short games and that titans are so easy to get. I wish we could limit the amount of research modules currently being able to build using research subjects. Then to progress to higher tech levels one has to complete a specified amount of research first.

After playing a multiplayer game, it seems that mid game it usually comes down to who can build a titan first. I beelined to the Honor amongst Rogues or what its called and colonized almost half the map (another thing that is probably unbalanced), and another guy beat a player next to him and had the largest economy, but the guy who just rushed a titan won the game, and chewed through two of my fleets and in fact made it stronger by giving it XP instead of weakening it.

The economy player got his titan out and had a substancial fleet of LRMs and Heavy Cruisers with it, but it was only level 1, which quickly proved to be the only thing that mattered. The other titan just owned his fleet in a few minutes, giving it even more XP, while the guy who built the titan first basically only had capitalships supporting his titan, which was actually pretty smart because it denied any easy way for the eco player to level up his titan.

In short, they're far to easy to get and at the least it is far too difficult to over come the level disparity once it comes out, no matter how many other advantages you may have.

Frankly i agree, more difficult to get titans would really neuter their overwhelming superiority, which is their real problem in the early game.

Great and Ironclad is busy with their game....seems like the whole Sins game is going to have to be rethought rebalanced.

I agree that titans are too fast to get, maybe moving up 2 slots in military tree would have this solved. (move it up 2 extra slots and more expensive research to cause more impact on eco). However i hope devs wont give titans a MAJOR NERF since it's meant to be a tool cutting through SBed choke points. So please, keep them powerful and useful as they are but make the production much slower

I agree that titans are too fast to get, maybe moving up 2 slots in military tree would have this solved. (move it up 2 extra slots and more expensive research to cause more impact on eco). However i hope devs wont give titans a MAJOR NERF since it's meant to be a tool cutting through SBed choke points. So please, keep them powerful and useful as they are but make the production much slower

Im not sure if delaying tech is the best option.

We going to have Titans that are like superwapons, you wont see them anymore.

how sad woud that be we wont be abel to use ouer new toys ?

Let the game evolve its the second day of beta ?

Agree that they are a bit to overpowerd in mid game.

I agree wth SithLord. We don't want to discourage them as a viable option.  Make them level much slower or something else to balance them out rather than making them more difficult to acquire.

This is why there is beta, and we can have the devs look into this and patch it. I would agree with what everyone has to say.

The problem strikes me as this:

Is there a viable way to counter mid-game Titans short of already having your own Titan fielded? As much fun as they are, I'd rather not have the game be nothing but Titan rushing and Titan vs. Titan.

I'm willing to give it a bit more time and see if there's a cost effective midgame way of bringing them down without a Titan of your own, but if there isn't, we have a problem.

Nerfing them too heavily would kind of defeat the purpose of a flying death machine. Moving them up the tech tree one level or two isn't wholely bad, they wouldn't reach superweapon level and with any luck it would put them in endgame tier, where the odds of fleets being able to combat them properly a bit higher.

I'd also urge the "Titan under construction" notification to be fixed so it's actually working ASAP, we need to know how -knowing- someone is rushing Titan affects the effectiveness of Titan rushes.

Oh, and on that note, increasing build time wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Superweapons on a per weapon basis honestly aren't that game-changing...a Titan is...

A player with no trade ports, no tech upgrades, and fewer planets can simply beeline a Titan and completely dominate the game....even with a superior economy, a larger fleet, and higher weapon technology, you just can't take out a titan unless you have one yourself of comparable level...

I don't say this from theorizing, I say this from experience...

Even if Titans required 6 military labs instead of 4, it would still be a very viable strategy to simply rush and build a Titan...it just wouldn't be quite as effective, as the increased upfront investment would make it a more risky strategy and people would have a little bit more time to get their act together...

Anything that requires 5 or 6 military labs is very viable (otherwise we'd never see repulsion, dem bots, HCs, or subverter lock-downs), and putting Titans back a tier or two in the tech tree is not going to make them too difficult to acquire...

I personally advocate a DPS nerf and to put titans at tiers 2-5 (that not only requires an extra lab, but makes all the techs more expensive)...Titan abilities are pretty damn powerful on their own, so I'd like to seem them more in line with capital ships in terms of raw DPS per fleet supply...

I haven't played online yet but if the notifications were working, wouldn't the person going straight for titan be very vulnerable to a rush (on a reasonably sized map)?

Just had my first game against an AI last night.  I naturally went straight for the titan.  I got the four techs in the military tree and actually went looking in the 'building' tech tree to look for research to build the huge factory to build the titan.

That didn't sound clear.  I think there should be techs to build the gantry that builds the huge titans. 

I was only playing a normal AI so killing him was easy.  I went in with a titan and about 10 basic frigates and 5 corvettes (sorry don't know the names, I'm a vasari player).  I was loyalist btw. I also had the new capital ship which was quite interesting.  the cap ship died but the titan was no where near death.

That's why I want to see the notifications fixed before we jump to conclusions.

A "titan is under construction" message within the first 15~20 minutes should be a giant "RUSH ME! RUSH ME NOW!" sign.

Pretty difficult to pull off, actually (and we knew a Titan was being built via Teamspeak)...Titans don't take long enough to build for a fleet to jump 10 grav wells....in a 5v5, people are close enough to probably make it difficult, but then you'll just see eco players rushing them instead...

Biggest problem is the loyalist titan, i'm sorry for tec rebel players but i've slaughterd 5 with hcs by now, they're hard nuts, but nowhere near the invulnerability of a loyalist titan.

I've just had a game, my lvl 8 loyal titan ran into 60/70 kodiaks, a lvl 1 rebel titan, 15 gauss, a fully weapon/hull techd sb ...

all of that was full research, shield, hull, weapon

my titan got to lvl 10, and never got a single dent inside hull, it took less damage then it self repaired ...

also the zone damage ability is just ... crazy, it melts stuff lower then a hc, and ends up killing hcs if they don't get repaired ... witch is unlikely since hoshis and repair stations die to it.

The last ability is op too, -50%/-75% weapon cooldown to friendly units (all exept titans and air if i saw right)

and +75%/+100% cooldown for enemy (same)

same for repair ability ^^ (witch actually boosts weapons too)

and for the hull boost one

the abilities and overall badassness of the titan is crazy

i'm pretty sure 150 kodiaks wouldnt break a lvl 4 or 6 titan

In the online game we played the player who rushed the titan was able to go from starting to build it to finish in 7 minutes. If you're not already attacking that player that's not enough time to stop it. And as mentioned the notifications don't always work. Typically you only get the first warning and not the progress.

Were the titans the same level? That's all that seems to matter, in our game it was the Rebel titan that owned everyone and easily beat a lower level loyalist titan even with a supporting fleet.

hum, well i killed a rebel titan with 80 kodiaks (it was lvl 4)

and a lvl 6 one with 20 gauss, tec sb, and 100 kodiaks (overrall overkill on it, since it melted fast)

never needed a titan to kill rebel ones when i had a good hc fleet

but i supose i never got rushed by a rebel titan without hcs so ... i wouldnt know

Stardock wants people using them and figuring them out.  Why have tough requirements to field now?  That can be balanced out later. 

Exactly iam voting for make them weaker.

And not delay them to much.

The Game is evolving now , it coud be complet different to what it was.

Different strategies , mutifront attacks with splitting fleets who knews will be standart.

We will find it out if its bad or good , just give it some time.

It woud be good just to let it run for a bit to have enough data.