Double kill

So I was trying to figure out why AI players dropped like flies in the game.

The reason is a bit funny.  So, a sovereign goes and gets killed by a monster. The monster has targeted that unit. The unit isn’t dead (it’s a sovereign) but merely transported home to its capital. Monster follows and double kills sovereign – and city he’s in. Game over.

184,416 views 43 replies
Reply #2 Top

I had 3 AI's drop out within 10 turns of each other in my first game, but I hadn't met any of them yet. Thought another AI was on the warpath.

This makes more sense. :grin:

Reply #3 Top

I notice that the monsters are dicks, nice to see they are doing it to the AI too, but they are getting genocided in the early game.

Reply #5 Top

I think monster AI needs a little tweaking :D

Reply #7 Top

Wow. That's a good (and funny) find.

In most cases, are the monsters attacking the sovereign because he's in their territory or is the sovereign being foolish trying to attack a monster he/she can't defeat?

 

Reply #8 Top


That sucks, it seems the opposite for me. The monsters NEVER attack the enemy and will chase me around the map all day.

 

Reply #9 Top


Personally I would prefer that the monster lose his targeting of the sovereign (or champion) if either is defeated.  Seems like a simple solution, but I don't know if it would pose a programming challenge.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting maxbergen24, reply 8

That sucks, it seems the opposite for me. The monsters NEVER attack the enemy and will chase me around the map all day.

 
I've noticed that some too. I had a bone ogre that would chase me off every time I got near him and he would repeatedly stomp all over my nearby gold mine. But an AI strolled in with some pioneers and founded a town a square away from him and he didn't bat an eye. I could see how he might not react to the pioneers in time before they settled, but why would he ignore a new settlement at his feet?

 

I understand Brad didn't want the monster AI to be bastardly, but I think they'd be more than justified in attacking a town in these circumstances.

Reply #11 Top
The reason is a bit funny. So, a sovereign goes and gets killed by a monster. The monster has targeted that unit. The unit isn’t dead (it’s a sovereign) but merely transported home to its capital. Monster follows and double kills sovereign – and city he’s in. Game over.

Don't quickly dismiss a mistake - there are some opportunities here. 

My idea - turn this into a random value/world event.  For instance, randomly, if a monster kills your sovereign, sometimes have the monster declare a vendetta or something to that effect where it will do anything to kill your hero immediately.   Have a pop up message appear whenever this happens.  I think this adds a layer of depth as, even though you got your arse whooped, now it could be MUCH worse.  Also, this covers making your sovereigns death even more painful.  I mean, c'mon, if your king dies or barely escapes dying - that should be a pretty big deal.  This is a great way to capitalize on that. 

Even if you are only talking about monsters vs AI, making this a world event gives great intel to everyone (eg the leader died and a monster is planning on destroying them... hmm... what should i do immediately?).

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Reply #12 Top

Strange... does this happen with heroes/champions too?  I sent - Bacco, I think was his name - around and apparently he was no match for spiders or demons (the poor guy had a scratch, a fever, wounded hand, and was blind in one eye by the end), but no monsters (fortunately) ever followed him home.

And on a related note, I won the game because all the AI's were somehow defeated.  This definitely explains things.  And thanks for sharing!

Reply #13 Top

:thumbsup:   I think pacov makes a good point.  When a monster targets a Sovereign to the point that he will pursue Double Kills, it should be treated as an Announced Event.  It should not happen often; but it would be a shame if it never happened.  I know the Environment is supposed to be hostile to the human players; but that shouldn't mean that monsters will never attack computer players.

Reply #14 Top

Again, this could be set as a type of wound, "Blood Trai"l, the monsters follow you until it heals/is cured.

Reply #15 Top

I have a proposed solution that should fix this and the general issue of "un-fun randomness" when it comes to your start (I sometimes find no recruitable champions anywhere near my start, and instead a lot of "Strong" and "Deadly" mobs of monsters -- umm, and my n00b leader should found a city next to them!?

When creating a new game, there should be a starting bias that only weak monsters are near any of the starting areas for players (human or AI).  Maybe if the game is set to a higher difficulty, the human player has an increased chance of starting near higher-level monsters, but ... when you are starting a game, generally you want to play a game, not suddenly win after 10 or 50 turns in because monsters have killed all the AI, or -- just as bad -- a high-level monster kills you off doing the same thing to you.

Reply #16 Top

That explains alot. I play large maps with all 10 spots filled and yeah usually lose 3-5 ai's in the first 100 turns.

Reply #17 Top

I have seen AI killed off within 100 turns and ive also seen monsters totally ignore AI towns and units and come after me.  I know there is a grace period for the monsters attacking and wandering, but I find it strange they will ignore the AI more than me.  Course Im uber and all, but still!!

Reply #18 Top

WTF.... LOL!

Rule #2 = Double tap

Reply #19 Top

"Lord Relias, you are wounded! What happened?"

"A Cave Bear trashed me, I dragged myself home..."

"A Cave Bear? Does it look like that one?"

*ROOOOOOAAAAR*

 

 

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Reply #20 Top


So I was trying to figure out why AI players dropped like flies in the game.
The reason is a bit funny.  So, a sovereign goes and gets killed by a monster. The monster has targeted that unit. The unit isn’t dead (it’s a sovereign) but merely transported home to its capital. Monster follows and double kills sovereign – and city he’s in. Game over.

What can I say?

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Reply #21 Top

Haha this is awesome glad you fixed it - can't wait for the next patch :-D

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 20
quoting post
So I was trying to figure out why AI players dropped like flies in the game.
The reason is a bit funny.  So, a sovereign goes and gets killed by a monster. The monster has targeted that unit. The unit isn’t dead (it’s a sovereign) but merely transported home to its capital. Monster follows and double kills sovereign – and city he’s in. Game over.



What can I say?

lol

Reply #24 Top

While we're on the topic of AI player behavior: would it be possible to get the AI to stop violating my territorial boundaries without a declaration of war? It's bad enough having a faction plant a flag in the middle of 5 of my cities. But when pioneers stroll through the outpost I purposely built at a geographic chokepoint, then I start getting miffed. Who's manning these outposts anyway? Gomer Pyle?

Reply #25 Top

Quoting samurai160, reply 23
Monsters can path and see through fog???

That's a great point. I believe the AI opponents can't, but monsters being able to seems like cheating or a bug.