So, what the heck are the Vasari running from, anyway?

...and does it even matter?

To my mind, the beauty of Sins of a Solar Empire derives from its comfort with ambiguity and room for interpretation. Players are free to participate in the story in a variety of ways, if only by dictating how their fleets behave during Sins games. With the exception of competitive multiplayer (in which culture and diplomacy are less efficient than orbital bombardment), players can choose to be ruthless warlords, gentle diplomats, or puppet masters. Victory can be achieved by inciting planetary populations to revolt, making peace with enemy leaders, or scouring enemy planets of all life.

It is possible to construct vignettes based on individual events in any given game. It's possible to interpret cultural overthrow of a planet as defiant citizens taking to the streets... or King Mob duped by propaganda. It's possible to imagine citizens of all three empires taking to their bunkers and shelters in the event of orbital bombardment. And it is possible to imagine the view from the comparatively calm bridge of a starbase or capital ship as battle rages around.

On a higher level, each faction is subject to interpretation. Are the Advent justified in their crusade, or are they genocidal lunatics?  Is the TEC the underdog or a sleeping giant? Are the Vasari little more then than the arrogant, decadent remnants of a stolen empire, or are they sympathetic in their obvious desperation?

In a game that asks questions like those above, it doesn't really matter what the Vasari are running from.  What matters is that they're here, they've been on the run for ten thousand years, and they're growing desperate as the stalemate continues. Though the policies and instruments of their fallen empire served the Vasari faithfully during their long journey, they are now faced with the unyielding TEC and the equally stubborn Advent.  Time is running out, and the Vasari must adapt or die. A schism is growing within the Vasari ranks: some wish to adopt scorched earth tactics, others want to encourage the TEC and the Advent to go into exile with them.

That said: though the above premise is sufficient to enjoy the game, it's still fun to speculate.

What we know:

  • According to the opening cinematic, the disaster originated from a Viturska Imperial Lab orbiting the planet Kron
    • Hereafter, we will refer to this lab as the Kron lab
  • According to the cinematic, the Kron lab was dedicated to "experimental transport"
  • Someone in the Kron lab  (by all appearances, a Vasari) pushed a button, which appeared to initiate the disaster
  • The disaster took the form of streams of bluish-white light
    • Incidentally: the streamers of light are the same color as phase space drives in a subsequent shot of a Jarun Migrator)
  • The manual tells us that the disaster originated from the "inner planets" of the Empire and proceeded in waves
    • The first planet to fall was probably Kron; the manual does not specify how many other planets fell along with Kron
    • Three worlds went dark during the second wave of the disaster's expansion
    • The Vasari homeworld was lost in the third wave
    • The rate at which the Vasari lost worlds to this disaster is greater than the rate of the Dark Fleet's expansion
  • Vasari analysts dismiss a rebellion, since a coordinated assault on so many worlds is astronomically unlikely
  • After the third wave of worlds went dark, the Dark Fleet was recalled from the Empire's frontier and massed for a blind assault on the inner planets
  • One warship (type unknown, hereafter known as the Survivor) survived the assault, emerging from phase space at a colony on the imperial frontier and showing signs of heavy damage; boarding parties confronted a battle-hardened crew driven mad with terror
    • It is unknown whether or not the crew of the Survivor were literally insane, or whether or not they eventually calmed down. There is a world of difference between panic and literal loss of higher cognitive functions
    • The manual does not specify if whether or not the crew of the Survivor was ever debriefed, and, if so, if anything was learned from them
  • The frontier colony decided to relocate temporarily, leaving warning beacons behind; when the beacons went dark, they picked up stakes and took off.  They've been on the run ever since, whatever is following them only a generation behind

Points for consideration:

  • As the disaster emerged from an Imperial transport lab, we can assume that the Vasari were tinkering with some new phase space or FTL communications or transport device
  • Regardless of the nature of the disaster, whatever it was led to physical damage of Vasari ships, so it wasn't a purely supernatural or paraphysical phenomenon
    • This damage could easily have been caused by Vasari ships opening fire on other Vasari ships
  • The damaged Vasari ship aside, we don't know what happened within the core worlds besides a massive communications blackout.

Premises and conclusions:

  1. Given Vasari mastery of phase space, plasma weapons, and nanoengineering, it's unlikely that the Vasari were pursuing research in these directions, with the exception of phase jump inhibitors
    • According to the manual, phase jump inhibitors are alien artifacts; the Vasari don't understand phase jump inhibitors; they can only replicate them via nanotechnology
    • The Vasari used phase jump inhibitors as part of their "subject containment network."  Translation: the Vasari used strategically placed phase jump inhibitors to slow down any rebels who somehow gained access to ships
  2. Given both the expansion of the Empire and the concerns of the Internal Intelligence over a possible rebellion, it is probable that whatever the Vasari were trying to develop, it would either aid the expansion of the empire, or the containment of rebels
  3. Psychic powers exist in the Sins universe -- the Advent have both a collective emotional experience and the ability to use telekinesis and psychic domination; psychic powers can be augmented, amplified, or projected via Psitech
  4. The Vasari do not evince psionic potential

Possibilities:

  1. The Vasari combined self-replicating nanomachines and phase space drives (with a rogue artificial intelligence for bonus points), creating an ever-expanding wave of omnivorous, phase-capable grey goo.  An omniphage that can perform phase jumps!
  2. A phase jump inhibitor disaster occurred: the Vasari were attempting to reverse-engineer phase jump inhibitors (to apply this knowledge for transport, communications, or both), and the experiment backfired:
    • In experimenting with phase jump inhibitors, the Vasari inadvertently either summoned or opened a portal permitting the creators of the phase jump inhibitors to return, with a vengeance
      • Many thanks to Lord-Vale for this suggestion!
    • Something locked away within a phase jump inhibitor escaped due to Vasari tampering
      • If phase jump inhibitors are Psitech, then phase jump inhibitors could very easily contain a psychic entity of some kind
    • A Vasari-manufactured phase jump inhibitor prototype malfunctioned and unleashed a chain reaction, such as a runaway phase space field
      • This is unlikely: a runaway phase space field would destroy not only ships, but planets and stars; there is no evidence in the manual of stars disappearing -- you'd think the Vasari would notice that!
  3. A psychic disaster occurred: having reached the limits of conventional engineering, the Vasari were experimenting with Psitech for communications or use in phase space transport purposes (or both), yielding unexpected results:
    • A runaway psychic shockwave capable of driving people insane, or producing conditions that are utterly terrifying
      • Reminiscent of the psychic noise generated by the Markers in Dead Space
    • An out-of-control mind-control field intended for the subject containment network
      • A mind-control field would account for the battle damage to the Survivor's hull: as ships fall under control, they open fire on their cohorts
    • The birth of a gestalt psychic being or hive mind that grows by assimilating individual consciousnesses
      • This would also account for the aforementioned battle damage: as warship crews were psychically assimilated, they would turn on their fellows
    • The Third Impact, Convergence, the Rapture, Childhood's End, whatever you want to call it: everything in the path of the disaster ascends to a higher plane of existence. Traumatically.

Regardless: I'm convinced that there is no conventional solution to whatever the Vasari have unleashed.  I feel that the only way the Vasari can survive is by acknowledging the Advent and the TEC as peers, calling for a cessation of hostilities in the face of a greater threat (after all, are the Advent and the TEC willing to bet their lives on the possibility that whatever is following the Vasari is hostile only to the Vasari?), sharing all the information they have on the anomaly, and making a stand against the threat -- because I'm pretty sure that if Advent Psitech, TEC industry, and Vasari engineering can't beat this thing, nothing can.

  • The Advent are necessary to understand the problem and propose a solution
  • The Vasari are necessary to design the solution
  • The TEC are necessary to reproduce the solution en masse

After all: sooner or later, the Vasari will run out of places to run. What better time and place to stand their ground than with the only two races in their history to give them pause?

What say you?

182,651 views 22 replies
Reply #1 Top

ehh, Again?

Dude, before you waste typing out that long winded exploit, would it have killed you to do a forum search? This place is littered with these deadend forums.

Until we are told other wise by the game itself of the admins just wait in silence. Just another waste here

Reply #2 Top

Instead of wasting a post to belittle this guy for proposing an idea, why don't you just be silent? Not like this forum is incredibly lively anyways...

 

On topic: Those are interesting ideas. I was thinking more along the lines of the accident creating some worm-hole thing in phase space, and some other race, even more advanced than the Vasari, came through and started slaughtering everything immediately. Like the Dominion from Star Trek on steroids. 

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Reply #3 Top

I actually quite enjoyed it especially since I recently had to go through all my notes on the matter :)

Reply #5 Top

I like the idea of Psychic beings because it would sort of make sense for why some of the advent rebelled.

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Reply #6 Top

@Lachlamp:

I did a forum search. I didn't see anything that gathered all the evidence to the extent that I did.

As for waiting for the devs to reveal the truth behind the Vasari exodus, I addressed that in my original post:

In a game that asks questions like those above, it doesn't really matter what the Vasari are running from. ... That said: though the above premise is sufficient to enjoy the game, it's still fun to speculate.

To be honest: whatever the developers reveal will probably not please EVERYONE, but it's threads like these (which the developers DO read) that give the developers new ideas and new directions that can come CLOSER to pleasing everyone.

Consequently, I don't see how amassing evidence and making speculation is a waste of time at all.

@Blair Fraser:

So... why, out of curiosity, did you find yourself compelled to go through your notes on this subject recently?  :grin:

@Lord-Vale:

I hadn't considered that. I'll add it to the OP, with credit to you.

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Reply #7 Top

Frostflare what do you think of this.

 

"For the first time in their history, the war creates a schism in the Advent Unity. The loyalists seek to continue their policy of revenge against the Traders, and to assimilate all others to the Unity’s influence. However, others amongst the Advent suspect that a corrupting influence from within has diverted the Unity from its proper destiny."

 

perhaps whatever is getting closer is effecting the Advent. Making one of the portions of the Advent a servant or something? I would do more of a writeup but my internet is having problems so :(

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Reply #8 Top

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 7
Frostflare what do you think of this?

"For the first time in their history, the war creates a schism in the Advent Unity. The loyalists seek to continue their policy of revenge against the Traders, and to assimilate all others to the Unity’s influence. However, others amongst the Advent suspect that a corrupting influence from within has diverted the Unity from its proper destiny."

perhaps whatever is getting closer is effecting the Advent. Making one of the portions of the Advent a servant or something? I would do more of a writeup but my internet is having problems so

I think that the Advent are still human, regardless of their emotional and intellectual gestalt (the Unity) and regardless of their psychic abilities.  It is a human trait to question (though not everyone has this trait!), and it is a human trait to become sickened by slaughter -- if I recall correctly, there were instances in WWII in which German soldiers threw down their arms and surrendered during the fight against the Soviet Union because they were tired of slaughtering people.

Both the Vasari and the Advent are leaps ahead of the TEC in terms of technology (it is the Vasari's mastery of phase space, nano-engineering, and plasma weaponry that allows them to keep pace with the Advent's supernatural abilities). When the Advent arrived, the TEC had only just reached a stalemate with the Vasari -- after ten awful years. Presumably, the only reason the TEC are still standing is because the Advent and the Vasari had no qualms about turning their guns on each other.

Regardless: as the Advent swooped in on an unprepared TEC, there was probably much loss of TEC life, civilian and otherwise. The Advent are posthuman, not inhuman -- there were doubtless some of them who felt doubt when witnessing such carnage. Over twenty years, doubts would be given the opportunity to fester.

As for the "corrupting influence from within," there is insufficient textual evidence to draw any firm conclusions. It could be anything:

  • An independent psychic entity or psychic cancer within the Unity
  • An external alien or psychic influence manipulating the Advent
    • This potentially includes either the Vasari or whatever is following them, but if so, is highly coincidental
  • Governmental corruption among the Anima ("Absolute power corrupts absolutely")
  • The emergence of multiple, dissenting denominations within the Advent based on differing interpretations of core tenets (like the directive to slaughter the TEC and assimilate everything else)
    • Amusing note: given that the Advent share thoughts and feelings through the Unity, making individual Advent citizens constituent parts of a larger meta-persona (the Unity), the emergence of multiple beliefs (each believing itself to be the One True Belief) among individual Advent citizens might manifest itself within the Unity meta-persona as multiple personalities -- one Unity meta-persona, two personalities (loyalist and rebel)

Personally, I'm inclined to bet on government corruption and/or the emergence of denominations, as opposed to a psychic entity or external threat. And though I'll be the first to admit that anything is possible, the idea that said hypothetical psychic entity is related to whatever took down the Vasari Empire depends on numerous coincidences, not the least of which being that whatever disaster befell the Vasari Empire was psychic in nature.

But there is no textual evidence to suggest that the Vasari were tinkering with Psitech, nor is there any evidence to suggest that phase jump emitters are powered by Psitech. It's a possibility, of course, given that the Vasari were experimenting with transport and/or communication in the Kron lab. Likewise, the manual doesn't explicitly state that the phase jump emitters aren't Psitech, nor that the Vasari weren't tinkering with Psitech at the time of their demise.

That said: the Advent are no more capable of understanding phase jump emitters than the Vasari, despite the fact that the Advent have both psychic abilities and a certain mastery of Psitech.  Heck, the Advent can't even replicate phase jump inhibitors -- the Vasari alone can do that. This suggests that whatever makes the phase jump inhibitors work, regardless of whether or not it contributed to the decline and fall of the Vasari Empire, is probably not based on Psitech or even psionics at all -- elsewise the Advent would probably have had more success reverse-engineering their stolen phase jump inhibitors.

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Reply #9 Top

Well I understand where you are coming from but maybe we are looking at this the wrong way, maybe the Vasari had nothing to do with their own demise. Lets put a different perspective perhaps they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time I understand the video implies much.

 

Also I think we should look at the scattered technology that is around all the maps denoted into artifacts. I think maybe we should take more interest in those because they could be related.

 

I dont mean to demean your very well written paragraph with a short one I just am in agreement for the most part.

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Reply #10 Top

Well maybe the Phase Space drives have locator beacons on them left by the race that originally built them since they are artifacts right?  So the accident may have caused the locator beacon to activate or maybe a rift to open (Supreme Commander FA lol) so the creators may have just poured out of that rift and started destroying those who "stole" their Drives. Just a thought but may be possible...

Reply #11 Top



If phase jump inhibitors are Psitech, then phase jump inhibitors could very easily contain a psychic entity of some kind

A Vasari-manufactured phase jump inhibitor prototype malfunctioned and unleashed a chain reaction, such as a runaway phase space field

This is unlikely: a runaway phase space field would destroy not only ships, but planets and stars; there is no evidence in the manual of stars disappearing -- you'd think the Vasari would notice that!


 

Iam not sure about that. The vasari are running away with more than speed of light, so they running with the Light of the Stars. The more distance they get between them and the stars the "older" is the light of the stars. why should they notice it ?

 

 

Reply #12 Top

Maybe the Vasari were wiped out by a time warp that sent a future alliance of Vasari Rebels, Advent, and TEC to Kron. A Revelation Battlecruiser used Dominate on the remaining Vasari ship, which explains why they were so loony. It'd be hilariously ironic.

EDIT: Or the empire never actually fell. A Space Troll appeared at Kron and just decided to scare the colony into fleeing the empire for the lulz. You mad, Vasari? :troll:

Reply #13 Top

the matter was already discussed - they are fleeing from Chuck Norris.

Reply #14 Top

How many trollers does it take to bring a theory into complete mediocrity?

I agree with Frostfire because he is the first person on this forum to bring a logical theory that goes with the game.

Now I know that maybe we need to realize that anything can happen and whatever the devs say, I am pretty sure everyone will finally shut up about their lousy theories. Now, I am not being mean or anything, I am just saying some of these theories need some in-game logic backup. 

I mostly agree with the fact of a psionic entity within the phase jump inhibitor.

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Reply #15 Top

I PERSONALLY agree with frost flare

 

The Vasari have a brilliant history backdrop but overall if the 'Great Threat' is 'approaching fast' then A. TEC are SCREWED without the more advanced races B. anything that can hand the Vasari their arse THAT FAST will do the same to the Advent C. If the Vasari are so hell-bent on annihilating the TEC then they should by all rights have allied by now and D. the only reason TEC have even kept a leg in the story line IS BECAUSE THE HAVE SUCH AN INDUSTRIAL JUGGERNAUT the instant the 'Great Threat' should be included soon and be an OVERALL OVERPOWERING PERSON WHO YOU CAN'T ALLY WITH AS THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF DOING SO AND GIVE OTHER RACE DIPLOMACY AN ADVANTAGE AS NO ONE WANTS TO DIE!!

 But the starting cinematic's Kron lab could be the thing they ran away in. Also you'd think the Trade Order would go "Oh God! What are they Running From?!"

Reply #16 Top

my hole opinion on this matter is comes from halo, the vasari created somthing / found somthing , built it/ brought it o the weapons lab it got loose and thats how it happened, mainly i want to fight wat ever it is i am mainly considering it The Flood

Reply #17 Top

in trutth o pove the idea of some alien monster like the flood its nrly unstoppable and requirs you to alli with others to even stand a chance, as halo historia says: the humans 1st discoverd the flood and started plowing thru the forrunners to get away from it while holding off as much as they could the forrunners fougt back with force brought humanity down then when. it was to late they discoverd the flood which  eing what it is plowed thru the forumners like tissue paper, since the forunners had delt with the humans they had no ay of finding out how the humans where able the hold h flood off and push forward thier only way of sopping the flood was starving it, the halos where ment cor thaat he montiors are not just thier gaurds but they are also rher to expiriment on the flood. i type this with a ipod so exuse the misspellings n such

Reply #18 Top

It could be a subspecies of Vasari similar to the way the Advent are a subspecies of Humans

Reply #20 Top

SINCE WHEN IS MARCH 15 ANNUAL NECRO DAY?!

Reply #21 Top

And why does he care about my joke post made two years ago? I still stand by my theory, though- a Space Troll totally just trolled the guys at Kron.

Reply #22 Top

It was;

Stay Puft Marshmallow Man